Here we go -- just like California -- make the utility rate payers pay for the disaster with rate hikes.
I don't doubt that there is local electric utility negligence in Maui. All these utilities care more for profits than safety, maintenance and updating infrastructure.
However, I see a pattern. Because the same single blame explanation is being used -- easily -- in California, because Pacific Gas and Electric's repeated negligence in power line safety updates already demanded by court order. However, the unsafe, faulty power line infrastructure would never have failed and triggered fires without the gale force wind gusts experienced both in Maui and California. SO, WHAT CAUSED THE GUSTING WINDS? That is the MAIN question.
And the only thing that can cause INSTANTANEOUS gusts of such magnitude outside a larger weather system is superheating of air using high tech weather weaponry. (Hurricane Dora cannot be used as an excuse -- because 500 miles distance is just too far away.) The fires caused by failing utility poles wires is NOT a worthy single explanation, but is being turned into a single explanation cover for the real cause of the firestorms: DEW superheated wind gusts causing utility wire failures followed by targeted immolation of selected targets using DEW. In Santa Rosa and other areas of Sonoma County, California, in 2017, weather was calm and no winds were forecast. Gusts were instantaneous in explosive bursts in different areas throughout the county during the night.
Don't be taken in by the single explanation of failed POWERLINES maintenance/updates. They are a part of the problem, but they come into play ONLY WHEN DAMAGED BY DIRECTED ENERGY WEAPON SUPERHEATING OF AIR CAUSING VIOLENT WIND GUSTS SEEMINGLY OUT OF NOWHERE. Think of it from the corporatists' and globalists' standpoint: They can avoid letting go of their profits from utilities and make citizen rate payers foot the bill for updates through rate hikes -- as happening in California now. ALL THE WHILE still using this as an excuse for fires actually made violent and unnaturally uncontrollable via Direct Energy Weaponry. It is not utilities versus DEW. It is BOTH. imo
But it isn't enough to say "They did something." What is the platform: is it airplanes, satellites, something on a mountaintop? And who controls the the air space, the satellite or the ground weapon? In other words, what percentage of high-tech weaponry is under the control of USAF loyal to Trump, and what percentage is rogue? https://realrawnews.com/2022/03/delta-force-seizes-deep-state-stronghold/
Maui County is punting with a who done it scenario. Legal experts will explain that the plaintiff or other potential plantiffs have no standing... The County has a long treacherous history as does the Legal profession, the Medical Cartel etc etc
Who is it that speaks the truth regardless of consequences? No more punting.
Yes. Is it even relevant to determining whether the event was planned or not? Relevant to that determination is rather the behavior pattern of the various authorities and agencies, all the way from Maui EMA down to the local police.
Maui County filed a lawsuit … in state Second Circuit Court in Hawaii against Hawaiian Electric and its subsidiaries on Maui, alleging the company failed to maintain the electrical system and power grid during a windstorm that lashed the island, resulting in three different fires that erupted on Aug. 8. . . .
The lawsuit claims that the utility, known as HECO, acted negligently by not pre-emptively cutting power despite a warning the prior day from the National Weather Service of high winds and temperatures, along with low humidity—prime conditions for a wildfire. It also says HECO’s failure to maintain its system led to energized, downed power lines causing the fires.
Jeff Childers Esq, of Covid and Coffee substack on this lawsuit:
The democrat government in Maui set a land speed record yesterday, as reported by the Wall Street Journal in an article headlined, “Maui Alleges Hawaiian Electric Caused Lahaina Wildfire.” The sub-headline added, “County files lawsuit against the utility claiming negligence.”
In what must be a record for local government to move fast at doing anything, Maui County, which has not even finished locating all the bodies, and hasn’t even really gotten started cleaning up the disaster, has already filed a lawsuit seeking to pin the blame for the fires on the Hawaiian Electric Company (HECO).
The blame-shifting lawsuit alleges that HECO was negligent by not pre-emptively cutting power despite the previous day’s National Weather Service warning of high winds and temperatures, along with low humidity—prime conditions for a wildfire, according to the county’s complaint. It also claims HECO failed to maintain the electrical system, leading to energized, downed power lines, which in turn caused the fires.
The lawsuit doesn’t claim any particular amount of damages, since nobody knows yet how much the damages will be. Why wait to find out?
A HECO statement about the suit said, “We are very disappointed that Maui County chose this litigious path while the investigation is still unfolding.” Good thing the County doesn’t need HECO’s help with anything at this point. Oh, wait.
There are several important things the lawsuit doesn’t say. If HECO had cut the power, then people would have been unable to charge their electric cars. What about them? And without power, hospitals and first responders would have been plunged into fiery darkness.
That’s not all. At this point, various major news sources have reported these additional inconvenient facts, all omitted from the county’s lawsuit:
• Firefighters abandoned a still-burning bush fire while hurricane force winds were blowing over it. The wildfire started shortly thereafter.
• An emergency management official failed to sound the sirens that would have warned people of the fire and need to evacuate.
• Another official refused to allow firefighters access to water to put out the fire for five hours, demanding submission of an “environmental impact statement.”
• Police literally blocked off the only exit out of Lahiana was literally and turned cars back toward the flames.
• Officials ordered kids to leave school and go back home where they were left alone.
• Hawaiian officials still refuse to definitively say how many children have been reported missing.
One supposes that HECO will probably mention all those things in its response to the County’s warp-speed lawsuit, and then prove them in court. I doubt this poorly-considered, hyper-speed blame-shifting tactic is going to work out very well for Maui’s criminals in command, I mean officials.
It’s still too early to say, but the Maui disaster is shaping up to be as perfectly horrible an example of woke incompetence as you could possibly ask for.
Court cases are wonderful things, because of a thing called discovery. Without a few lawsuits, the criminals would say, "We're learning from what happened so that we can be better prepared the next time," and "We need to focus on the future."
Hospitals have generators, by the way, and emergency personnel have their own lighting. Arson was involved, but HECO was culpable for not shutting off electricity to downed power lines, which is also a form of arson.
Must watch this video at about min. 6.20 showing a Laser Beam coming from the sky in Chile...A report about a man hearing 5 thunderous bangs and catching this on his cellphone. Link:
I am all for a thorough and proper, truly scientific approach to the determination and possible explanation for what caused this fire in Lahaina and the others we are seeing pop up recently; I assume most people are. The problem we face in today’s world is that for decades, and especially the last 3 years, our governments have bald faced lied and gaslit out to the nth degree about EVERYTHING they are doing to us and happening all about us yet, the continually don’t understand that we don’t trust their science fiction explanations for what is going on in the world around us!!! NOTHING THEY TOLD US ABOUT COVID, from where it started to how it was developed and who did it to the statistics concerning infections, spread, deaths and testing results and anything about the so called vaccines were true: NOTHING!!! And they are still lying to us about new strains, new rates of infections, the lethality of new strains, who is affected by it, etc. and that the new vaxxes will work better then the old vaxxes, so on and so forth yet we are supposed to believe they did not start a fire to burn people out of their homes so the Uber rich and the government can get at their land???
Sorry; fool me once, twice and a couple dozen other times, shame on you!!! Keep fooling me about fires caused by DEW’s, spraying aluminum, strontium and chromium in the skies, destroying our food supplies and making us eat bugs, reduce the population through man made climate change initiatives, wreck the economy on purpose, release a deadly pathogen to remove a sitting president, etc. and shame on me!!!
What you are doing Michael is using the preponderance of evidence asserting the mistrust is appropriate. It is. Your points well taken, however its still best to stay on topic as this one
The bigger topic is “trust” not just the fires in Lahaina! I agree look for the natural explanations but no matter how many unnatural explanations are uncovered that point to anything other than “natural”, they will lie and gaslight you anyway! But yes, thanks for your comment!!! ☮️
Great news on the fire guy helping you; and I'm pleased you approach more dramatic interpretations of the fire with kindness and an air of collectively learning about the situation rather than adding to the Balkanization of the two sides. If you can talk people off the ledge it will make everyone a little better for it.
seen through the lens having a "rational" world view promoting it with the assertion "dramatic interpretations" but avoiding the preponderance of evidence in full view of readers. Yup peeps is no the edge...
Unfortunately most people don't look up anymore and those that do don't ask questions. SRM takes place almost daily here and the planes don't show up on flightradar24. In some areas people now think what is artificial clouds are natural. They have been controlling the weather for decades.
If you want to see what house fires or wild fires can do - you have to go back 25 years, not that all of these are engineered - its just that the ones often chosen for comparison - tend to be of questionable origin
Yup 👍 I have told people and passed out Danes flyers . They don’t listen; roll eyes back as they go to their ozzy & Harriet lifestyle and only watch the corrupt mainstream media .
The best thing about a wildfire coming through my place a few years ago was I got to meet a lot of Cal Fire people.
First off, firefighters are a unique person. They are, most often, motivated by providing a service to their community, sustaining a stable life, and working hard. That was my experience. I didn't meet any "yahoos" though I am sure they have their fare share.
The conversations I had with many of them, up to the fire chief in the area, all had the same story. 30 years doing this and I still haven't figured it out. "Why this burned here and that didn't burn there?" Is a common refrain.
what you say is true and accurate with well described experience
it does not take into account the preponderance of evidence seen in the comments, not from the original article. The refrain you mention is also apparent here, and makes no sense, but pales when compared to the other myriad of questions comments peeps keep hammering and authors keep ignoring. It's a world view "thang" as always
I await any maps being published anywhere showing the burned areas along with all the energized power and tel/com overhead lines the morning of the fire with all their transformer nodes, and all other highly flammable ignition sources from the gas station which exploded, any industrial areas with large quantities of flammable chemicals, every restaurant with an oil fryer vat, every house with a flammable roof with a wood exterior, and yes, all the natural gas lines and their above ground pipes, too.
I also want to see a map with every destroyed car with a gas tank or electric battery - noting which is which and at what temperature each could explode - and every household with a household electric battery, another highly flammable ignition source.
Meanwhile, local government has sued its power company for failing to de-energize all its power lines once its first overhead line snapped that morning in the increasing wind velocities.
And I want to see the names of each big water rights corporate user because about 75% of all local water rights (thanks to the legacy of the old planation water diversions) whose massive water interests prevented the local water reservoir management from immediately releasing more water for the Lahaina fire hydrants which lost all pressure while residents still had a chance to save more structures and lives. And then, to was too late once the hydrant system's pumping power failed when too many power lines snapped and the hydrant system - amazingly - had no fireproof backup pump. Fact is once that fire got going it produced 80+mph wind gusts and it was a raging firestorm few could stop.
Will anyone sue the water and fire hydrant systems for civil damages for murder? Or are both run by a government royal king with "sovereign immunity" able to murder with absolute CYA/finger-pointing impunity?
I also want to see data charts on how many Maui firefighters walked away from their jobs when the State governor required all to be jabbed. Reports say the early morning "contained" fire in Lahaina which was near the snapped power line causing a blackout at Lahaina High School - making the school district send all its school kids home - was left with ***no firefighters*** on site to be sure old embers from it would not flare up again because "all" firefighters where needed elsewhere at other fires starting as the day's high winds kept increasing. I want to see maps showing like an army's movement where each firefighter - paid, deputized from bystanders nearby due to the emergency, or trained volunteers - were that day in Lahaina. Then, match up that data with all the sparking and failing overhead power lines and all the most highly flammable ignition sources.
Watched a video of a retired California firefighter who saved his house near downtown Lahaina. A corner lot, two story, carport under the second floor, and a wooden second floor deck. He had no water pressure at his home nor his street's fire hydrant as the fires approached his home. But he had 3 buckets of water and saved his house by snuffing out spot fires as the fire zigzagged around his house. He stayed to fight because he had a nearby empty dirt lot in his neighborhood where he could shelter if overrun by a wall of flame. A prime example of a "trained volunteer" firefighter.
The police chief is also the coroner , which is corrupt conflict of interest, and he’s going around with a doctor costume on (he’s not a doctor) giving propaganda mind control to a fake news propaganda spewer pretending to be a journalist. He’s a WEF Globalist. He was also the one who covered up the Jason Aldean country concert mass shooting in Las Vegas. All of the major corporations on earth are owned by WEF Blackrock Vanguard including the news corporations. They lie and spew the mind control narrative that the WEF wants. Clinton Obama Biden John Kerry Al Gore are some of WEF Globalist depopulation psychopaths. Hillary Clinton’s fake charity CEO was caught and charged with kidnapping children in Haiti after their earthquake or hurricane. Clinton John and Tony Podesta, Obama Biden Oprah Tom Hanks Bill Gates and many billionaires are WEF globalist depopulation climate hysteria religion cult psychopaths who frequented Epstein pedophile island.
Obama appointee in Hawaii would not release water to allow people to fight the fire and save themselves and their children from burning to death. The Globalist World, Economic Forum Democrats in charge in Hawaii would not allow money to be spent to clear away the brush around the electrical wires because they wanted the money for “green“ scam crap. They don’t care about human life. They’re just doing the whole fake climate hysteria religion called and now trying to blame climate change on their failures to not release water to not sound the alarms to not clear the brush. The world economic forum for years has wanted Lahaina to be a great reset 15 minute city run by artificial intelligence and the billionaires all the 10+ billionaires around there are buying up all the land and want the land. They want the land for the Globalist Great Reset, one world government, one world religion, one world currency New World order mark of the beast system, and they burn those natives out. It was the native kingdom of Hawaii, and those Lahaina people have been holding onto that land since thousands of years and would not sell to these wealthy, super rich World Economic, Forum, Globalists, Solar, Globalists control the local bureaucrats and allow them to be burned to death. And then factor in www.geoengineeringwatch.orgwww.thePeoplesvoice.comWww.stopworldcontrol.comWww.geoengineeringwatch.org
Funny how Mr. Paddock was an off-line, gun running person whose income exceeded the level of his so-called employment. Las Vegas to Lahaina....no need to look behind the curtain--it's gone.
Thank you for all your diligent work, your attention to detail, and your honesty. The victims of this horrific tragedy and all of us deserve to know why and how this happened and few seem interested in providing them those answers.
The cheapest fire-fighting method is pumps that suck the seawater and create spray curtains. This cools down the flames prevents more homes from being burnt to create a raging inferno. The entire area already has plenty of salt-laden sea sprays and that is why wood is used as they will not corrode in seawater. The New Lahaina must plan for firewater pumps. Given the tens and hundreds of millions earned from tourism, to spend a few millions on fire-fighting system will prevent a future multi-billion dollar loss of property and lives.
Yes it is cheap to pump seawater to put out a fire but it also has serious drawbacks. Like nothing growing in that soil for a few years. And water curtains don't stop radiant heat or fire brands. Radiant heat goes through it like it isn't even there and firebrands go over it and cause fires well beyond the fire front. Something that people just don't understand about wildland or urban interface fire fighting, the only way to stop it is to build a fire break in front of it. That firebreak needs to be free of combustible materials and it has to be wide enough for firebrands to not be able to cross it. With a 50mph wind firebrands can carry 2 miles. With a 50mph wind a fire in dense, dry, grassy fuel will burn a mile in 3-5 minutes. So you need to be able to create a 2 mile wide firebreak the length of the fire front and you have to give yourself time to work which means miles of a head start. In the situation in Lahaina that puts the fire line several miles out to sea.
What I find wholly unexplained is why there was no fire apparatus burned up and why there were no firefighter fatalities? Seriously, a fire storm like that and not a single firefighter got cut off from escape? Not a single fire apparatus got caught up in the fire and was abandoned by its crew? That tells me 1 thing for certain, the fire department had already given up and evacuated themselves before the fire got to town. Was that an order they were given or did they evacuate on their own and not tell the whole of the population they were leaving?
This is what drives me nuts. We have the cash and debt to fund all kinds of experimental weaponry but when it comes to these kinds of things, not enough planes (there is one super tanker plane in the world??) No boats on the shoreline ready to go. No wind monitoring system that could have foreseen this. Nothing.
The yearly lack of improving on this coupled with what we spend abroad really needs to come to the surface. Demands need to be made. Spend our money for what we need.
Well said. Sadly neither the Republicans and Democrats really care about Americans. The Whitehouse is mostly focussed on projecting the waning powers of USA across the globe, to overthrow governments, to fight proxy wars. Trillions have been spent over the decades for wasteful overseas military adventures when American infrastructure has declined. Americans need a different party to both the Democrats and the Republicans but Americans are too laid-back politically.
As a non-American, I can say that respect for America across much of Asia has declined a lot. There is no longer the respect nor fear of American influence and power. Hence we see a rising China, a rising Africa and soon, a rising Latin America. The world cannot exist in a political vacuum.
BRICS seems to be a growing political power even though the big players...China, India, Russia, Brazil and S. Africa may not be unified in everything. But the UN has long cease to exist as a world body that can moderate Big Powers. The Security Council is the only forum for the legacy Five Powers to exercise their power to veto.
Americans have to take charge, kick out the Democrats and Republicans...they form the Deep State, the Washington DC Swamp. But who will emerge? That is for Americans to decide.
Funny how Mr. Paddock was an off-line, gun running person whose income exceeded the level of his so-called employment. Las Vegas to Lahaina....no need to look behind the curtain--it's gone.
The difference in condition between the steel structural supports and the stainless fermentation tanks has nothing to do with the differences in steel makeup and everything to do with the loading of the steel. You can get a steel structure up to red hot and it will maintain its shape, unless there is a load applied to it. In this case the roof structure was enough of a load to deform those beams while the tanks had only to support their own weight so remained in the original shape.
Steel, when exposed to heat will expand. A 100 foot beam heated to 1,000 degrees will grow by about 1 foot. In a lot of structure types, especially using block, that amount of lengthening will be more than enough to push the wall into instability.
As to the umbrellas not being burned, weird stuff happens in fires but it can usually be explained by the simple physics of heat transfer. I doubt the umbrellas were treated with a flame retardant or that they were made of anything but a synthetic material like polyester, nylon, vinyl or similar material. Almost all of the synthetic fabrics have melting points in the area of 500* F so even if they weren't heated to ignition temperature by radiated heat they would have been exposed to temperatures exceeding that by convected heat. The radiant heat was burning people in the water on their faces so we know radiant heat was a huge issue. The dog in the picture was burned to a crisp by radiant heat, there is little chance the umbrellas no matter their location could have escaped the same fate.
I can't find a picture of the umbrellas before or after the fire so can't comment on what obstacles radiant heat would have had or to observe the objects near the umbrellas to see what condition they are in. A torched car sitting next to the umbrella would be hard to explain but if the car is unburned then it becomes easy to explain that the heat simply was blocked by something.
And living trees have huge amounts of water in them. Before the wood can burn the water must go away. If there is enough heat it goes away by boiling off which damages the tree visibly and causes it to die. So the leaves may still be green but the tree may be dead or dying and you won't know for weeks.
I am of the mind that none of the damage suggests "directed energy weapons" but that doesn't mean the problem still wasn't the fault of the idiots running the government in Hawaii or that they didn't have an evil plan in mind when making the decisions that resulted in the fire. But the simple fact is there are so many inconsistencies in the stories that cannot possibly be true and the stories changing doesn't help their case.
They cancelled school hours before the fires took off because the power was out. Somehow even with the power out the school administration was able to get the message out that there would be no school, but suddenly they cannot get the message out that there is a massive conflagration imminent? I call BS.
And if the schools were without power, how did power lines without power start fires? If a power line goes down it will blow circuit breakers and shut the power off on that section of line. That happens so that the grounded line doesn't draw more energy than can be produced. Some of those breakers are auto resetting but even then after a couple of resets they give up trying and just kill the power.
The politicians who ran the state to the point the fires couldn't be responded to need to face justice. We can hope it will be in court but I have my doubts that will happen which leaves only 1 way to bring them to justice. And now you know why democrat politicians want to disarm everyone but their bodyguards.
The dog is likely to have escaped one of the burning cars or buildings, as many people were found dead on the ground outside their houses in the 2009 fire that destroyed the Australian town of Marysville (escaped too late - or died of smoke inhalation), or he may have suffered from a blast.
In our fire there were dead animals all over the property. Two possums had been blown out of a tree that exploded into flames. Four kangaroos were found along our fenceline - there was a gully to shelter in but the fence was wooden and that exploded into flame. At the neighbour's house there was the saddest site - behind where the woodshed had been there was a kangaroo hugging/covering another - both were frozen dead in that position - sheltering on the lee side from the oncoming fire.
The fermentation tanks may have contained non-combustible liquid which may have kept the tank’s steel cool enough to keep the tanks from deforming.
Many communities keep up the appearance of a fire department, but actually lack the resources and timely manpower to fully utilize the available resources. Any outdoor fire in an area of readily combustible materials being fed and driven by gale force winds is unstoppable.
I will stand by the posting as worded but change the white to red. A structure fire isn't going to reach the heat level required for white hot. We are talking about a 16 foot tall tapered H beam. The vertical load of the beam itself is not sufficient to cause a lateral displacement until the beam is nearly melted. As is clearly shown in the photo, all the beams failed in the same direction due to the lateral load of the roof structure. Put the same I beam in the middle of a bonfire and when it was done burning there wouldn't be a significant lateral deformation.
Are these residential gas lines above ground? Even gyrotron radiation would take a while to get through several feet of dirt. I suppose it could set off gas meters.
Before I say "nonsense!", how about we start with "Citations, please!"?
Just what is a "DEW"? "Directed Energy"? What "energy"? Neutrinos, photons (what wavelength?), electrons, protons, muons, Captain Kirk's phasers (nadion particles), other? So vague, I must consider it the Dew Drop Inn (original KFC location).
If you don't have any citations to back your assertions, don't post them. Do you consider Substack comments some sort of scam? This isn't GoFundMe! Go Zelle yourself into Abaddon, grifter!
So 60 mph wind driven fires and exploding gas tanks can melt glass and wheels/doorknobs on cars parked across the street, but they leave the support structure of umbrellas that were closer to the fire than any car intact. Whether the umbrella poles were wood or metal, the flimsy "flame retardant" fabric protected them. Even the bottom of the umbrella that wasn't covered by "flame retardant material!"
With that in mind... just think of the money to be made by selling flame retardant umbrella material to cover all buildings that will no longer burn in raging firestorms, thanks to their "flame retardant coverings!" Just drape the buildings with this material and presto! Saved!
Ever stood near a camp fire, with the smoke continually directing itself toward you, even when you move around the fire? Imagine a big building fire. With massive updrafts it needs to draw in air/oxygen from below. The air comes from the sea, past the umbrellas, and then into the building fire.
So if the air came from the sea, how did the cars catch on fire that were closer to the sea? How did the boats in the ocean catch fire if the air came from the sea?
Cars have many flat surfaces and ignition points - they are not vertically folded flame retardant umbrellas on the flank of a fire. Cars have flammable material - grease and oil - through their underparts and potentially open windows as people parked and ran to the water. Have a look at the umbrellas' siting from 1:07 in this post fire drone footage. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PSYNqZqAVs
Here are shade sails over a children's playground - stretched out, ready to catch embers, damaged but not burned away. Post fire drone footage: 4:27
There is a critical point in the approach of a fire where the wind suddenly switches 180 degrees drawing back toward the fire. This is a critical time where a fire fighter without water could (in a last ditch effort) light a fire that would run back into the front of a fire, providing a break. But it doesn't stop the embers carried from kilometers away dropping on him.
It's come up now. "2 miles" is a tiny distance. On a day of 47C and 100km/hr wind in Australia the fire was spotting 5km ahead of itself.
However in this example the car appears to be sited next to the burnt grass, so there is a very obvious explanation - incendiary embers landing on ignition points on the car. I'm not saying that's why it burned - what would I know? - the car might've been one of those cars that just catch on fire on an ordinary street - we see them on the news from time to time. But the occam's razer is the embers.
Also, don't underestimate how hot a grass fire can be, and how drivers can't see the road in the smoke. We've had many people perish on roadsides in grass paddocks.
You're ignoring the point you made in your first post Madeleine: "The air comes from the sea, past the umbrellas, and then into the building fire." The fried cars disprove your comment as the cars are next to the sea wall.
The 60-80mph winds we're told existed would have trashed the umbrellas and sent them flying. That alone is proof that the winds were not what we're being told. You can't have it both ways.
If the heat was sufficient to melt car door handles and wheels it would have been sufficient to melt the poles holding up the umbrellas as well as the ribs that were folded under the umbrellas. And if the umbrella poles were wood they would have burned from the base up, where the fabric didn't protect them. This looks much more to me like the DEW missed the umbrellas, like in shots where the back of a car was cooked but the front was intact.
Note that the cars on the street side of the umbrellas are unscathed... yet another possible indication of a DEW that was not directed at that area.
I've found something special for you... A comment from 4 years ago, about a fire that razed my home town 10 years before that. It came from the comments on the link I sent you.
"I recall working at Marysville during the recovery phase when an exclusion zone had been declared by the Coroner. We were finding people who were just broken, sitting near their properties having lost everything. Engine blocks of cars had melted with the heat, yet the shade sail at the public pool survived. It was amazingly indiscriminate."
This apparently indiscriminate nature of a fire is absolutely NORMAL. The survival of these open air 'fabrics' is also normal. It matters not how flimsy they appear. Perhaps it is typical for a man to not understand how a solid thing like an engine block can melt, yet a small, thin, fine thing can be resilient. Ask any woman - there are many stories and sayings on this point. A friend of mine in Marysville opened a chest in her flattened house, in which everything was burnt, except for a yellow dress made of flimsy evening dress which was perfect. It may have been made of fiberglass.
On your first point... The rushing in of the sea air from behind did not save the cars, indeed, the barrier of the cars may have stopped the inflow of air, and would certainly not save a car on the leeward site facing a burning - you will acknowledge I think that cars not only have flat surfaces but also vents with ignition points by embers and possibly explosions from the building, shattering glass, giving more entry points, and burned, possibly setting each other on fire. My point about the umbrellas is firstly that they were vertical, no particular ignition points, that there was open moist air fully available from the sea right beside them rushing in on the flank (they did not limit airflow) - the car nearby on that side is likewise not burned.
Umbrellas by the sea are set to take all kinds of winds. They are very new umbrellas, judging by the google maps records.
The heat from the car fires melted the handles. Ever seen footage of random burning cars? They are flammable items. Something to do with the oil petrol and rubber.
You seem to be thinking about DEW in a Simpson-esque sort of way. Are you proposing that the DEW burned the cars, and not the fire? Seriously?
Do you have the slightest clue as to what a DEW can do Madeleine? From your last comment I think not. You twist all of the evidence to suit your beliefs and ignore visible evidence... not to mention prior events such as the Paradise Fire in CA and the 911 event, in which seismic data proves the fall of millions of tons of concrete, steel and aluminum had the seismic imprint of a 10 story building and not 100 story buildings. The debris field confirms this as well.
There is a DEW USAF program on Maui. For the love of God wake up! Who do you think profited most from the 911 event but the MIC and military contractors? You think the military has your best interests at heart? Ever heard of the Ukraine war and the 140+ billions squandered there?
Are you not aware of the "Smart City" plans for Maui? The fact that mega millionaires have been trying to get the Hawaiians off their land here for years?
And finally: if you think 60-80mph winds won't dislodge an umbrella from it's base you've never given thought to this obvious possibility.
When Columbus blundered onto Cuba, there were around 400,000 native Cubans. Very friendly and honest, they didn't even possess weapons of war. 100 years later they had all been slaughtered by their colonial overlords, for refusing to be slaves on their own land.
"Lopez Expeditions of Cuba 1850-1851" -Anderson C. Quisenberry
Hmmm... I can't speak to that, but the historical account quoted in the introduction, written as common knowledge of his class, specifies Cuba and mentions not Dominica. I lived three years in Honduras on the Caribbean eastern lowlands and edge of the jungle in a village called Mocoron.
The difference between the true natives and the African descent creoles was night and day. I lived amongst all those amazingly humble and quiet people.
Very peaceable.
Short and stocky: Sumu and Ramas.
Taller and with stockier women, the Misquito Creoles.
In their poverty, local villagers always found ways to get into the warehouse when freshly restocked with sacks and sacks of beans, rice, corn, salt, and wheat to be distributed to the Sumu, Rama, and Misquito refugees fleeing a made-up humanitarian crisis in Nicaragua, while there was nothing for the supposedly self-sustaining prior residents, the Misquito villagers. Considering the area they required to support a very small population, the sudden influx of people left little for them to forage.
Their filibuster was to take rations from the warehouse, at night. Sometimes the villagers who knew us best would sit and have beers and laughs; meanwhile other village men were under the warehouse, (which was on stilts) slicing the bottoms of sacks from underneath with a piece of cloth on the ground to catch whatever grain fell out, or lifting boards whose nails they had removed, who knows when.
We all were very good natured about it and we settled on an amount be included as the price of using their land (which we paid for, monthly) and they were paid per sack for everything that was unloaded from the Courtney (UN chartered vessel captained by an amazing young Floridian whose name escapes me) and taken by motorized dug out canoe and then carried up the wharf on the Rio Patuca, to the warehouse.
They were clever and fun, but truly lived from hand to mouth. There was/is no fallback nutritional assistance now that the 'crisis' has evaporated.
What a construct of conflicting memes, partial truths and outright fiction.
There are stories from LOCALS of engine blocks being melted and all 4-aluminum wheels melted into puddles. Yes, heat rises and to melt metal with convected heat the wind would have to be extremely high. So many of the videos show billowing smoke, which would have been impossible in the winds of "up to 80 MPH." Those who wish to have simple solutions and to just move on, will be gratified by this article. Those with some experience or curiosity will want more and better than this. And, it's a bit interesting that some of the "nicer homes" were preserved pretty much intact on the coastline and (based on this article) directly in the path of the winds. Did the heat suddenly deside to rise when it hit the highest income properties? Too many holes to plug with platitudes and one-size-fits-all explanations. Truly sorry about that.
Having responded to plenty of “ordinary” car fires I can personally attest to seeing engine blocks, transaxle cases and especially magnesium/aluminum wheels melted from the heat of a fire.
Rubber tires release a tremendous amount of heat when they burn.
Thank you; Point taken about aluminum in some cases. However to attain the heat necessary at near ground level for the duration needed to melt wheels and engine blocks there would have to have been a very strong wind to keep the heat that low. Billowing smoke betrays the high velocity winds in some of the videos. Much deep, scientific and transparent investigation needs to be done.
UNITE WITH GOD AND HIS SOLDIERS OF CHRIST, --- #DONOTCOMPLY --- TO ANY COMMUNIST DEMONICRAT EVILS. THESE ILLEGAL unmandates ARE COMMUNIST CRAP ILLEGAL TO OUR USA CONSTITUTION ON OUR USA LAND FORCED UPON US BY ILLEGAL USURPER DEMONICRAT INFILLTRATED BY COMMUNIST CHINA ETC,,,,. WE WILL NOT COMPLY -- clowse schwaubstikka is a communist it is our duty to take out any form of communist terrorists foreign and domestic IN or OUT Of OUR AMERICAN GOVT. ARM UP AGAINST THESE EVILS WE ARE ABIDING BY OUR LAWS OUR CONSTITUTION BECAUSE OF OUR CORRUPT TREASONOUS COMMUNIST INFILTRATED GOVT. WHICH IS PERFECTLY WRITTEN WE CAN FIGHT CONMMUNISM IT IS WRITTEN. THE DEMONICRATS ARE COMMUNISTS BY AIDING AND ABETTING illegals, izlam, china ,blm, antifa etc.,,,, THIS IS OUR AMERICA NOT NAZI schwaubstikka, gates, USURPER joes CCP etc..,,,,AMERICA DO NOT COMPLY UNITE WITH GOD AND LIKE MINDED CITIZENS UNITE. And He said to them, “But now,whoever has a money belt is to take it along, likewise also a bag, and whoever has no sword should sell his garment and buy one.⚔UNITE WITH GOD OUR HEAVENLY FATHER AND ALL THE LORDS BROTHERS AND SISTERS IN CHRIST, PRAY FOR ALL AND PREP SAVE THE CHILDREN --- The Glory of His Majesty “Declare His glory among the nations, His wonders among all peoples.” — Psalm 96:3🙏“Preach the Gospel”
“Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.”
Mark 16:15🙏 ---- Luke 22:36 ----- New International Version
He said to them, “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.
New Living Translation
“But now,” he said, “take your money and a traveler’s bag. And if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one!
English Standard Version
He said to them, “But now let the one who has a moneybag take it, and likewise a knapsack. And let the one who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one.
Berean Standard Bible
“Now, however,” He told them, “the one with a purse should take it, and likewise a bag; and the one without a sword should sell his cloak and buy one.
Berean Literal Bible
And He said to them, "But now, the one having a purse, let him take it, and likewise a bag; and the one having no sword, let him sell his cloak and buy one.
King James Bible
Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
New King James Version Then He said to them, “But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one.
New American Standard Bible
And He said to them, “But now, whoever has a money belt is to take it along, likewise also a bag, and whoever has no sword is to sell his cloak and buy one.
this still doesn't detract from the theory this was a planned event.
Indeed it does not.
Maui County Sues Hawaiian Electric for Causing Wildfire Through Negligence
https://www.breitbart.com/environment/2023/08/25/maui-county-sues-hawaiian-electric-for-causing-wildfire-through-negligence/
Here we go -- just like California -- make the utility rate payers pay for the disaster with rate hikes.
I don't doubt that there is local electric utility negligence in Maui. All these utilities care more for profits than safety, maintenance and updating infrastructure.
However, I see a pattern. Because the same single blame explanation is being used -- easily -- in California, because Pacific Gas and Electric's repeated negligence in power line safety updates already demanded by court order. However, the unsafe, faulty power line infrastructure would never have failed and triggered fires without the gale force wind gusts experienced both in Maui and California. SO, WHAT CAUSED THE GUSTING WINDS? That is the MAIN question.
And the only thing that can cause INSTANTANEOUS gusts of such magnitude outside a larger weather system is superheating of air using high tech weather weaponry. (Hurricane Dora cannot be used as an excuse -- because 500 miles distance is just too far away.) The fires caused by failing utility poles wires is NOT a worthy single explanation, but is being turned into a single explanation cover for the real cause of the firestorms: DEW superheated wind gusts causing utility wire failures followed by targeted immolation of selected targets using DEW. In Santa Rosa and other areas of Sonoma County, California, in 2017, weather was calm and no winds were forecast. Gusts were instantaneous in explosive bursts in different areas throughout the county during the night.
Don't be taken in by the single explanation of failed POWERLINES maintenance/updates. They are a part of the problem, but they come into play ONLY WHEN DAMAGED BY DIRECTED ENERGY WEAPON SUPERHEATING OF AIR CAUSING VIOLENT WIND GUSTS SEEMINGLY OUT OF NOWHERE. Think of it from the corporatists' and globalists' standpoint: They can avoid letting go of their profits from utilities and make citizen rate payers foot the bill for updates through rate hikes -- as happening in California now. ALL THE WHILE still using this as an excuse for fires actually made violent and unnaturally uncontrollable via Direct Energy Weaponry. It is not utilities versus DEW. It is BOTH. imo
I'm aware that the U.S. government can and does control the weather: I posted about Brookhaven and Wilhelm Reich's radiosondes here: https://inscribedonthebelievingmind.blog/2022/04/16/montauk-project-experiments-in-time/
But it isn't enough to say "They did something." What is the platform: is it airplanes, satellites, something on a mountaintop? And who controls the the air space, the satellite or the ground weapon? In other words, what percentage of high-tech weaponry is under the control of USAF loyal to Trump, and what percentage is rogue? https://realrawnews.com/2022/03/delta-force-seizes-deep-state-stronghold/
and Reckless Disregard
Maui County is punting with a who done it scenario. Legal experts will explain that the plaintiff or other potential plantiffs have no standing... The County has a long treacherous history as does the Legal profession, the Medical Cartel etc etc
Who is it that speaks the truth regardless of consequences? No more punting.
What do you think their reason for no Standing is?
Yes. Is it even relevant to determining whether the event was planned or not? Relevant to that determination is rather the behavior pattern of the various authorities and agencies, all the way from Maui EMA down to the local police.
Click-and-destroy: The precisely planned destruction of Lahaina
https://sashalatypova.substack.com/p/was-weaponized-gis-used-in-lahaina
Maui County Sues Hawaiian Electric for Causing Wildfire Through Negligence
https://www.breitbart.com/environment/2023/08/25/maui-county-sues-hawaiian-electric-for-causing-wildfire-through-negligence/
The Wall Street Journal reported:
Maui County filed a lawsuit … in state Second Circuit Court in Hawaii against Hawaiian Electric and its subsidiaries on Maui, alleging the company failed to maintain the electrical system and power grid during a windstorm that lashed the island, resulting in three different fires that erupted on Aug. 8. . . .
The lawsuit claims that the utility, known as HECO, acted negligently by not pre-emptively cutting power despite a warning the prior day from the National Weather Service of high winds and temperatures, along with low humidity—prime conditions for a wildfire. It also says HECO’s failure to maintain its system led to energized, downed power lines causing the fires.
Jeff Childers Esq, of Covid and Coffee substack on this lawsuit:
The democrat government in Maui set a land speed record yesterday, as reported by the Wall Street Journal in an article headlined, “Maui Alleges Hawaiian Electric Caused Lahaina Wildfire.” The sub-headline added, “County files lawsuit against the utility claiming negligence.”
In what must be a record for local government to move fast at doing anything, Maui County, which has not even finished locating all the bodies, and hasn’t even really gotten started cleaning up the disaster, has already filed a lawsuit seeking to pin the blame for the fires on the Hawaiian Electric Company (HECO).
The blame-shifting lawsuit alleges that HECO was negligent by not pre-emptively cutting power despite the previous day’s National Weather Service warning of high winds and temperatures, along with low humidity—prime conditions for a wildfire, according to the county’s complaint. It also claims HECO failed to maintain the electrical system, leading to energized, downed power lines, which in turn caused the fires.
The lawsuit doesn’t claim any particular amount of damages, since nobody knows yet how much the damages will be. Why wait to find out?
A HECO statement about the suit said, “We are very disappointed that Maui County chose this litigious path while the investigation is still unfolding.” Good thing the County doesn’t need HECO’s help with anything at this point. Oh, wait.
There are several important things the lawsuit doesn’t say. If HECO had cut the power, then people would have been unable to charge their electric cars. What about them? And without power, hospitals and first responders would have been plunged into fiery darkness.
That’s not all. At this point, various major news sources have reported these additional inconvenient facts, all omitted from the county’s lawsuit:
• Firefighters abandoned a still-burning bush fire while hurricane force winds were blowing over it. The wildfire started shortly thereafter.
• An emergency management official failed to sound the sirens that would have warned people of the fire and need to evacuate.
• Another official refused to allow firefighters access to water to put out the fire for five hours, demanding submission of an “environmental impact statement.”
• Police literally blocked off the only exit out of Lahiana was literally and turned cars back toward the flames.
• Officials ordered kids to leave school and go back home where they were left alone.
• Hawaiian officials still refuse to definitively say how many children have been reported missing.
One supposes that HECO will probably mention all those things in its response to the County’s warp-speed lawsuit, and then prove them in court. I doubt this poorly-considered, hyper-speed blame-shifting tactic is going to work out very well for Maui’s criminals in command, I mean officials.
It’s still too early to say, but the Maui disaster is shaping up to be as perfectly horrible an example of woke incompetence as you could possibly ask for.
https://www.coffeeandcovid.com/p/wokecompetence-friday-august-25-2023
Court cases are wonderful things, because of a thing called discovery. Without a few lawsuits, the criminals would say, "We're learning from what happened so that we can be better prepared the next time," and "We need to focus on the future."
Hospitals have generators, by the way, and emergency personnel have their own lighting. Arson was involved, but HECO was culpable for not shutting off electricity to downed power lines, which is also a form of arson.
Must watch this video at about min. 6.20 showing a Laser Beam coming from the sky in Chile...A report about a man hearing 5 thunderous bangs and catching this on his cellphone. Link:
https://rumble.com/v3dob72-wef-caught-paying-arsonists-to-burn-down-the-world-as-part-of-sick-depopula.html
I am all for a thorough and proper, truly scientific approach to the determination and possible explanation for what caused this fire in Lahaina and the others we are seeing pop up recently; I assume most people are. The problem we face in today’s world is that for decades, and especially the last 3 years, our governments have bald faced lied and gaslit out to the nth degree about EVERYTHING they are doing to us and happening all about us yet, the continually don’t understand that we don’t trust their science fiction explanations for what is going on in the world around us!!! NOTHING THEY TOLD US ABOUT COVID, from where it started to how it was developed and who did it to the statistics concerning infections, spread, deaths and testing results and anything about the so called vaccines were true: NOTHING!!! And they are still lying to us about new strains, new rates of infections, the lethality of new strains, who is affected by it, etc. and that the new vaxxes will work better then the old vaxxes, so on and so forth yet we are supposed to believe they did not start a fire to burn people out of their homes so the Uber rich and the government can get at their land???
Sorry; fool me once, twice and a couple dozen other times, shame on you!!! Keep fooling me about fires caused by DEW’s, spraying aluminum, strontium and chromium in the skies, destroying our food supplies and making us eat bugs, reduce the population through man made climate change initiatives, wreck the economy on purpose, release a deadly pathogen to remove a sitting president, etc. and shame on me!!!
What you are doing Michael is using the preponderance of evidence asserting the mistrust is appropriate. It is. Your points well taken, however its still best to stay on topic as this one
already has gone sideways.
The bigger topic is “trust” not just the fires in Lahaina! I agree look for the natural explanations but no matter how many unnatural explanations are uncovered that point to anything other than “natural”, they will lie and gaslight you anyway! But yes, thanks for your comment!!! ☮️
That poor charred dog in the picture… I feel for all the animals and kids.
Where are the kids?
Exactly. They better start talking about it. Seems to be a media lock on all the many missing children. Terrible bunch of bungling bureaucrats.
Yes, is there anyone talking about the kids?
Great news on the fire guy helping you; and I'm pleased you approach more dramatic interpretations of the fire with kindness and an air of collectively learning about the situation rather than adding to the Balkanization of the two sides. If you can talk people off the ledge it will make everyone a little better for it.
seen through the lens having a "rational" world view promoting it with the assertion "dramatic interpretations" but avoiding the preponderance of evidence in full view of readers. Yup peeps is no the edge...
Sorry to be obtuse, Paul, but could you add to your thought? I'm dense enough not to get it.
Geoengineeringwatch.org
https://youtu.be/NlAWl-s6xts?si=pbEBOj1KGeICkH5f
Unfortunately most people don't look up anymore and those that do don't ask questions. SRM takes place almost daily here and the planes don't show up on flightradar24. In some areas people now think what is artificial clouds are natural. They have been controlling the weather for decades.
If you want to see what house fires or wild fires can do - you have to go back 25 years, not that all of these are engineered - its just that the ones often chosen for comparison - tend to be of questionable origin
Yup 👍 I have told people and passed out Danes flyers . They don’t listen; roll eyes back as they go to their ozzy & Harriet lifestyle and only watch the corrupt mainstream media .
A person mentioned to me Geoengineering services at the hemet ca. area .
I think a lot of it is about the ozone layer depletion. A couple articles I found . Some excerpts . https://nuclear-news.net/2015/09/18/nuclear-radiation-depletes-the-ozone-layer-will-eventually-destroy-planets-oxygen/
The best thing about a wildfire coming through my place a few years ago was I got to meet a lot of Cal Fire people.
First off, firefighters are a unique person. They are, most often, motivated by providing a service to their community, sustaining a stable life, and working hard. That was my experience. I didn't meet any "yahoos" though I am sure they have their fare share.
The conversations I had with many of them, up to the fire chief in the area, all had the same story. 30 years doing this and I still haven't figured it out. "Why this burned here and that didn't burn there?" Is a common refrain.
The complexity of a fire storm is infinite.
FEMA arsonists.
what you say is true and accurate with well described experience
it does not take into account the preponderance of evidence seen in the comments, not from the original article. The refrain you mention is also apparent here, and makes no sense, but pales when compared to the other myriad of questions comments peeps keep hammering and authors keep ignoring. It's a world view "thang" as always
I await any maps being published anywhere showing the burned areas along with all the energized power and tel/com overhead lines the morning of the fire with all their transformer nodes, and all other highly flammable ignition sources from the gas station which exploded, any industrial areas with large quantities of flammable chemicals, every restaurant with an oil fryer vat, every house with a flammable roof with a wood exterior, and yes, all the natural gas lines and their above ground pipes, too.
I also want to see a map with every destroyed car with a gas tank or electric battery - noting which is which and at what temperature each could explode - and every household with a household electric battery, another highly flammable ignition source.
Meanwhile, local government has sued its power company for failing to de-energize all its power lines once its first overhead line snapped that morning in the increasing wind velocities.
And I want to see the names of each big water rights corporate user because about 75% of all local water rights (thanks to the legacy of the old planation water diversions) whose massive water interests prevented the local water reservoir management from immediately releasing more water for the Lahaina fire hydrants which lost all pressure while residents still had a chance to save more structures and lives. And then, to was too late once the hydrant system's pumping power failed when too many power lines snapped and the hydrant system - amazingly - had no fireproof backup pump. Fact is once that fire got going it produced 80+mph wind gusts and it was a raging firestorm few could stop.
Will anyone sue the water and fire hydrant systems for civil damages for murder? Or are both run by a government royal king with "sovereign immunity" able to murder with absolute CYA/finger-pointing impunity?
I also want to see data charts on how many Maui firefighters walked away from their jobs when the State governor required all to be jabbed. Reports say the early morning "contained" fire in Lahaina which was near the snapped power line causing a blackout at Lahaina High School - making the school district send all its school kids home - was left with ***no firefighters*** on site to be sure old embers from it would not flare up again because "all" firefighters where needed elsewhere at other fires starting as the day's high winds kept increasing. I want to see maps showing like an army's movement where each firefighter - paid, deputized from bystanders nearby due to the emergency, or trained volunteers - were that day in Lahaina. Then, match up that data with all the sparking and failing overhead power lines and all the most highly flammable ignition sources.
Watched a video of a retired California firefighter who saved his house near downtown Lahaina. A corner lot, two story, carport under the second floor, and a wooden second floor deck. He had no water pressure at his home nor his street's fire hydrant as the fires approached his home. But he had 3 buckets of water and saved his house by snuffing out spot fires as the fire zigzagged around his house. He stayed to fight because he had a nearby empty dirt lot in his neighborhood where he could shelter if overrun by a wall of flame. A prime example of a "trained volunteer" firefighter.
The police chief is also the coroner , which is corrupt conflict of interest, and he’s going around with a doctor costume on (he’s not a doctor) giving propaganda mind control to a fake news propaganda spewer pretending to be a journalist. He’s a WEF Globalist. He was also the one who covered up the Jason Aldean country concert mass shooting in Las Vegas. All of the major corporations on earth are owned by WEF Blackrock Vanguard including the news corporations. They lie and spew the mind control narrative that the WEF wants. Clinton Obama Biden John Kerry Al Gore are some of WEF Globalist depopulation psychopaths. Hillary Clinton’s fake charity CEO was caught and charged with kidnapping children in Haiti after their earthquake or hurricane. Clinton John and Tony Podesta, Obama Biden Oprah Tom Hanks Bill Gates and many billionaires are WEF globalist depopulation climate hysteria religion cult psychopaths who frequented Epstein pedophile island.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=nbnDEY4rUKs&feature=share
Obama appointee in Hawaii would not release water to allow people to fight the fire and save themselves and their children from burning to death. The Globalist World, Economic Forum Democrats in charge in Hawaii would not allow money to be spent to clear away the brush around the electrical wires because they wanted the money for “green“ scam crap. They don’t care about human life. They’re just doing the whole fake climate hysteria religion called and now trying to blame climate change on their failures to not release water to not sound the alarms to not clear the brush. The world economic forum for years has wanted Lahaina to be a great reset 15 minute city run by artificial intelligence and the billionaires all the 10+ billionaires around there are buying up all the land and want the land. They want the land for the Globalist Great Reset, one world government, one world religion, one world currency New World order mark of the beast system, and they burn those natives out. It was the native kingdom of Hawaii, and those Lahaina people have been holding onto that land since thousands of years and would not sell to these wealthy, super rich World Economic, Forum, Globalists, Solar, Globalists control the local bureaucrats and allow them to be burned to death. And then factor in www.geoengineeringwatch.org www.thePeoplesvoice.com Www.stopworldcontrol.com Www.geoengineeringwatch.org
Funny how Mr. Paddock was an off-line, gun running person whose income exceeded the level of his so-called employment. Las Vegas to Lahaina....no need to look behind the curtain--it's gone.
Why didn't Lahaina have a desalinization plant? Why wasn't a seawater pump connected to the fire hydrants?
Limitation is a lie. There is water everywhere: there are seas beneath the ground, and they know it.
Thank you for all your diligent work, your attention to detail, and your honesty. The victims of this horrific tragedy and all of us deserve to know why and how this happened and few seem interested in providing them those answers.
The cheapest fire-fighting method is pumps that suck the seawater and create spray curtains. This cools down the flames prevents more homes from being burnt to create a raging inferno. The entire area already has plenty of salt-laden sea sprays and that is why wood is used as they will not corrode in seawater. The New Lahaina must plan for firewater pumps. Given the tens and hundreds of millions earned from tourism, to spend a few millions on fire-fighting system will prevent a future multi-billion dollar loss of property and lives.
Yes it is cheap to pump seawater to put out a fire but it also has serious drawbacks. Like nothing growing in that soil for a few years. And water curtains don't stop radiant heat or fire brands. Radiant heat goes through it like it isn't even there and firebrands go over it and cause fires well beyond the fire front. Something that people just don't understand about wildland or urban interface fire fighting, the only way to stop it is to build a fire break in front of it. That firebreak needs to be free of combustible materials and it has to be wide enough for firebrands to not be able to cross it. With a 50mph wind firebrands can carry 2 miles. With a 50mph wind a fire in dense, dry, grassy fuel will burn a mile in 3-5 minutes. So you need to be able to create a 2 mile wide firebreak the length of the fire front and you have to give yourself time to work which means miles of a head start. In the situation in Lahaina that puts the fire line several miles out to sea.
What I find wholly unexplained is why there was no fire apparatus burned up and why there were no firefighter fatalities? Seriously, a fire storm like that and not a single firefighter got cut off from escape? Not a single fire apparatus got caught up in the fire and was abandoned by its crew? That tells me 1 thing for certain, the fire department had already given up and evacuated themselves before the fire got to town. Was that an order they were given or did they evacuate on their own and not tell the whole of the population they were leaving?
This is what drives me nuts. We have the cash and debt to fund all kinds of experimental weaponry but when it comes to these kinds of things, not enough planes (there is one super tanker plane in the world??) No boats on the shoreline ready to go. No wind monitoring system that could have foreseen this. Nothing.
The yearly lack of improving on this coupled with what we spend abroad really needs to come to the surface. Demands need to be made. Spend our money for what we need.
Well said. Sadly neither the Republicans and Democrats really care about Americans. The Whitehouse is mostly focussed on projecting the waning powers of USA across the globe, to overthrow governments, to fight proxy wars. Trillions have been spent over the decades for wasteful overseas military adventures when American infrastructure has declined. Americans need a different party to both the Democrats and the Republicans but Americans are too laid-back politically.
As a non-American, I can say that respect for America across much of Asia has declined a lot. There is no longer the respect nor fear of American influence and power. Hence we see a rising China, a rising Africa and soon, a rising Latin America. The world cannot exist in a political vacuum.
BRICS seems to be a growing political power even though the big players...China, India, Russia, Brazil and S. Africa may not be unified in everything. But the UN has long cease to exist as a world body that can moderate Big Powers. The Security Council is the only forum for the legacy Five Powers to exercise their power to veto.
Americans have to take charge, kick out the Democrats and Republicans...they form the Deep State, the Washington DC Swamp. But who will emerge? That is for Americans to decide.
Their priorities are to control us all with pandemics and Unnecessary wars. There is no money left over for the people.
Absolutely. My speculative position is this was on purpose.
But it has to be put together properly, what was done.
Funny how Mr. Paddock was an off-line, gun running person whose income exceeded the level of his so-called employment. Las Vegas to Lahaina....no need to look behind the curtain--it's gone.
The difference in condition between the steel structural supports and the stainless fermentation tanks has nothing to do with the differences in steel makeup and everything to do with the loading of the steel. You can get a steel structure up to red hot and it will maintain its shape, unless there is a load applied to it. In this case the roof structure was enough of a load to deform those beams while the tanks had only to support their own weight so remained in the original shape.
Steel, when exposed to heat will expand. A 100 foot beam heated to 1,000 degrees will grow by about 1 foot. In a lot of structure types, especially using block, that amount of lengthening will be more than enough to push the wall into instability.
As to the umbrellas not being burned, weird stuff happens in fires but it can usually be explained by the simple physics of heat transfer. I doubt the umbrellas were treated with a flame retardant or that they were made of anything but a synthetic material like polyester, nylon, vinyl or similar material. Almost all of the synthetic fabrics have melting points in the area of 500* F so even if they weren't heated to ignition temperature by radiated heat they would have been exposed to temperatures exceeding that by convected heat. The radiant heat was burning people in the water on their faces so we know radiant heat was a huge issue. The dog in the picture was burned to a crisp by radiant heat, there is little chance the umbrellas no matter their location could have escaped the same fate.
I can't find a picture of the umbrellas before or after the fire so can't comment on what obstacles radiant heat would have had or to observe the objects near the umbrellas to see what condition they are in. A torched car sitting next to the umbrella would be hard to explain but if the car is unburned then it becomes easy to explain that the heat simply was blocked by something.
And living trees have huge amounts of water in them. Before the wood can burn the water must go away. If there is enough heat it goes away by boiling off which damages the tree visibly and causes it to die. So the leaves may still be green but the tree may be dead or dying and you won't know for weeks.
I am of the mind that none of the damage suggests "directed energy weapons" but that doesn't mean the problem still wasn't the fault of the idiots running the government in Hawaii or that they didn't have an evil plan in mind when making the decisions that resulted in the fire. But the simple fact is there are so many inconsistencies in the stories that cannot possibly be true and the stories changing doesn't help their case.
They cancelled school hours before the fires took off because the power was out. Somehow even with the power out the school administration was able to get the message out that there would be no school, but suddenly they cannot get the message out that there is a massive conflagration imminent? I call BS.
And if the schools were without power, how did power lines without power start fires? If a power line goes down it will blow circuit breakers and shut the power off on that section of line. That happens so that the grounded line doesn't draw more energy than can be produced. Some of those breakers are auto resetting but even then after a couple of resets they give up trying and just kill the power.
The politicians who ran the state to the point the fires couldn't be responded to need to face justice. We can hope it will be in court but I have my doubts that will happen which leaves only 1 way to bring them to justice. And now you know why democrat politicians want to disarm everyone but their bodyguards.
The dog is likely to have escaped one of the burning cars or buildings, as many people were found dead on the ground outside their houses in the 2009 fire that destroyed the Australian town of Marysville (escaped too late - or died of smoke inhalation), or he may have suffered from a blast.
In our fire there were dead animals all over the property. Two possums had been blown out of a tree that exploded into flames. Four kangaroos were found along our fenceline - there was a gully to shelter in but the fence was wooden and that exploded into flame. At the neighbour's house there was the saddest site - behind where the woodshed had been there was a kangaroo hugging/covering another - both were frozen dead in that position - sheltering on the lee side from the oncoming fire.
The fermentation tanks may have contained non-combustible liquid which may have kept the tank’s steel cool enough to keep the tanks from deforming.
Many communities keep up the appearance of a fire department, but actually lack the resources and timely manpower to fully utilize the available resources. Any outdoor fire in an area of readily combustible materials being fed and driven by gale force winds is unstoppable.
That is a very good point about the tanks.
Also true about the capacity of the fire department to handle "worst case" scenarios.
I will stand by the posting as worded but change the white to red. A structure fire isn't going to reach the heat level required for white hot. We are talking about a 16 foot tall tapered H beam. The vertical load of the beam itself is not sufficient to cause a lateral displacement until the beam is nearly melted. As is clearly shown in the photo, all the beams failed in the same direction due to the lateral load of the roof structure. Put the same I beam in the middle of a bonfire and when it was done burning there wouldn't be a significant lateral deformation.
Are these residential gas lines above ground? Even gyrotron radiation would take a while to get through several feet of dirt. I suppose it could set off gas meters.
Before I say "nonsense!", how about we start with "Citations, please!"?
Just what is a "DEW"? "Directed Energy"? What "energy"? Neutrinos, photons (what wavelength?), electrons, protons, muons, Captain Kirk's phasers (nadion particles), other? So vague, I must consider it the Dew Drop Inn (original KFC location).
If you don't have any citations to back your assertions, don't post them. Do you consider Substack comments some sort of scam? This isn't GoFundMe! Go Zelle yourself into Abaddon, grifter!
So 60 mph wind driven fires and exploding gas tanks can melt glass and wheels/doorknobs on cars parked across the street, but they leave the support structure of umbrellas that were closer to the fire than any car intact. Whether the umbrella poles were wood or metal, the flimsy "flame retardant" fabric protected them. Even the bottom of the umbrella that wasn't covered by "flame retardant material!"
With that in mind... just think of the money to be made by selling flame retardant umbrella material to cover all buildings that will no longer burn in raging firestorms, thanks to their "flame retardant coverings!" Just drape the buildings with this material and presto! Saved!
I've got some prime swampland to sell you, John!
Ever stood near a camp fire, with the smoke continually directing itself toward you, even when you move around the fire? Imagine a big building fire. With massive updrafts it needs to draw in air/oxygen from below. The air comes from the sea, past the umbrellas, and then into the building fire.
Lawrence Beck
1 hr ago
It's called convection, Madeleine.
So if the air came from the sea, how did the cars catch on fire that were closer to the sea? How did the boats in the ocean catch fire if the air came from the sea?
I look forward to your answer.
Cars have many flat surfaces and ignition points - they are not vertically folded flame retardant umbrellas on the flank of a fire. Cars have flammable material - grease and oil - through their underparts and potentially open windows as people parked and ran to the water. Have a look at the umbrellas' siting from 1:07 in this post fire drone footage. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PSYNqZqAVs
Here are shade sails over a children's playground - stretched out, ready to catch embers, damaged but not burned away. Post fire drone footage: 4:27
Here is a side shot of a fire from 2009 (Australia). It is being blown by a ~100km wind but it's billowing and the side flank (think umbrellas) is clear. https://www.facebook.com/heraldsun/photos/a.417370303170/10156496678453171/?type=3
There is a critical point in the approach of a fire where the wind suddenly switches 180 degrees drawing back toward the fire. This is a critical time where a fire fighter without water could (in a last ditch effort) light a fire that would run back into the front of a fire, providing a break. But it doesn't stop the embers carried from kilometers away dropping on him.
OK, explain this one Madeleine
https://twitter.com/Truthpole/status/1696170633434943508?s=20
It's come up now. "2 miles" is a tiny distance. On a day of 47C and 100km/hr wind in Australia the fire was spotting 5km ahead of itself.
However in this example the car appears to be sited next to the burnt grass, so there is a very obvious explanation - incendiary embers landing on ignition points on the car. I'm not saying that's why it burned - what would I know? - the car might've been one of those cars that just catch on fire on an ordinary street - we see them on the news from time to time. But the occam's razer is the embers.
Also, don't underestimate how hot a grass fire can be, and how drivers can't see the road in the smoke. We've had many people perish on roadsides in grass paddocks.
"Something went wrong. Try reloading."
Can you send me the tweet's text?
You're ignoring the point you made in your first post Madeleine: "The air comes from the sea, past the umbrellas, and then into the building fire." The fried cars disprove your comment as the cars are next to the sea wall.
The 60-80mph winds we're told existed would have trashed the umbrellas and sent them flying. That alone is proof that the winds were not what we're being told. You can't have it both ways.
If the heat was sufficient to melt car door handles and wheels it would have been sufficient to melt the poles holding up the umbrellas as well as the ribs that were folded under the umbrellas. And if the umbrella poles were wood they would have burned from the base up, where the fabric didn't protect them. This looks much more to me like the DEW missed the umbrellas, like in shots where the back of a car was cooked but the front was intact.
Note that the cars on the street side of the umbrellas are unscathed... yet another possible indication of a DEW that was not directed at that area.
I've found something special for you... A comment from 4 years ago, about a fire that razed my home town 10 years before that. It came from the comments on the link I sent you.
"I recall working at Marysville during the recovery phase when an exclusion zone had been declared by the Coroner. We were finding people who were just broken, sitting near their properties having lost everything. Engine blocks of cars had melted with the heat, yet the shade sail at the public pool survived. It was amazingly indiscriminate."
This apparently indiscriminate nature of a fire is absolutely NORMAL. The survival of these open air 'fabrics' is also normal. It matters not how flimsy they appear. Perhaps it is typical for a man to not understand how a solid thing like an engine block can melt, yet a small, thin, fine thing can be resilient. Ask any woman - there are many stories and sayings on this point. A friend of mine in Marysville opened a chest in her flattened house, in which everything was burnt, except for a yellow dress made of flimsy evening dress which was perfect. It may have been made of fiberglass.
On your first point... The rushing in of the sea air from behind did not save the cars, indeed, the barrier of the cars may have stopped the inflow of air, and would certainly not save a car on the leeward site facing a burning - you will acknowledge I think that cars not only have flat surfaces but also vents with ignition points by embers and possibly explosions from the building, shattering glass, giving more entry points, and burned, possibly setting each other on fire. My point about the umbrellas is firstly that they were vertical, no particular ignition points, that there was open moist air fully available from the sea right beside them rushing in on the flank (they did not limit airflow) - the car nearby on that side is likewise not burned.
Umbrellas by the sea are set to take all kinds of winds. They are very new umbrellas, judging by the google maps records.
The heat from the car fires melted the handles. Ever seen footage of random burning cars? They are flammable items. Something to do with the oil petrol and rubber.
You seem to be thinking about DEW in a Simpson-esque sort of way. Are you proposing that the DEW burned the cars, and not the fire? Seriously?
Was weaponized GIS used in Lahaina? Click-and-destroy program for "sustainable redevelopment"
Sasha Latypova
https://sashalatypova.substack.com/p/was-weaponized-gis-used-in-lahaina
Do you have the slightest clue as to what a DEW can do Madeleine? From your last comment I think not. You twist all of the evidence to suit your beliefs and ignore visible evidence... not to mention prior events such as the Paradise Fire in CA and the 911 event, in which seismic data proves the fall of millions of tons of concrete, steel and aluminum had the seismic imprint of a 10 story building and not 100 story buildings. The debris field confirms this as well.
There is a DEW USAF program on Maui. For the love of God wake up! Who do you think profited most from the 911 event but the MIC and military contractors? You think the military has your best interests at heart? Ever heard of the Ukraine war and the 140+ billions squandered there?
Are you not aware of the "Smart City" plans for Maui? The fact that mega millionaires have been trying to get the Hawaiians off their land here for years?
And finally: if you think 60-80mph winds won't dislodge an umbrella from it's base you've never given thought to this obvious possibility.
It's land clearance and the Hawaiians are buffalo... The same as it ever was. Why you chosen this hill is perplexing...
When Columbus blundered onto Cuba, there were around 400,000 native Cubans. Very friendly and honest, they didn't even possess weapons of war. 100 years later they had all been slaughtered by their colonial overlords, for refusing to be slaves on their own land.
"Lopez Expeditions of Cuba 1850-1851" -Anderson C. Quisenberry
The Church and the Crown were behind all of that. https://inscribedonthebelievingmind.blog/2023/08/25/the-great-reset-arkheim-ra-john-whitberg/
Same greedy parasites that travel unmolested on the labors of the common man and woman. Same ones, same families, century after century.
And boy they are full of themselves, now.
Hmmm... I can't speak to that, but the historical account quoted in the introduction, written as common knowledge of his class, specifies Cuba and mentions not Dominica. I lived three years in Honduras on the Caribbean eastern lowlands and edge of the jungle in a village called Mocoron.
The difference between the true natives and the African descent creoles was night and day. I lived amongst all those amazingly humble and quiet people.
Very peaceable.
Short and stocky: Sumu and Ramas.
Taller and with stockier women, the Misquito Creoles.
In their poverty, local villagers always found ways to get into the warehouse when freshly restocked with sacks and sacks of beans, rice, corn, salt, and wheat to be distributed to the Sumu, Rama, and Misquito refugees fleeing a made-up humanitarian crisis in Nicaragua, while there was nothing for the supposedly self-sustaining prior residents, the Misquito villagers. Considering the area they required to support a very small population, the sudden influx of people left little for them to forage.
Their filibuster was to take rations from the warehouse, at night. Sometimes the villagers who knew us best would sit and have beers and laughs; meanwhile other village men were under the warehouse, (which was on stilts) slicing the bottoms of sacks from underneath with a piece of cloth on the ground to catch whatever grain fell out, or lifting boards whose nails they had removed, who knows when.
We all were very good natured about it and we settled on an amount be included as the price of using their land (which we paid for, monthly) and they were paid per sack for everything that was unloaded from the Courtney (UN chartered vessel captained by an amazing young Floridian whose name escapes me) and taken by motorized dug out canoe and then carried up the wharf on the Rio Patuca, to the warehouse.
They were clever and fun, but truly lived from hand to mouth. There was/is no fallback nutritional assistance now that the 'crisis' has evaporated.
great question, though the value is here in the commentary, and it is alive
One persons world view is markedly different from another. That is the beauty of subs!!
Is he dismissing that?
What a construct of conflicting memes, partial truths and outright fiction.
There are stories from LOCALS of engine blocks being melted and all 4-aluminum wheels melted into puddles. Yes, heat rises and to melt metal with convected heat the wind would have to be extremely high. So many of the videos show billowing smoke, which would have been impossible in the winds of "up to 80 MPH." Those who wish to have simple solutions and to just move on, will be gratified by this article. Those with some experience or curiosity will want more and better than this. And, it's a bit interesting that some of the "nicer homes" were preserved pretty much intact on the coastline and (based on this article) directly in the path of the winds. Did the heat suddenly deside to rise when it hit the highest income properties? Too many holes to plug with platitudes and one-size-fits-all explanations. Truly sorry about that.
Having responded to plenty of “ordinary” car fires I can personally attest to seeing engine blocks, transaxle cases and especially magnesium/aluminum wheels melted from the heat of a fire.
Rubber tires release a tremendous amount of heat when they burn.
Thank you; Point taken about aluminum in some cases. However to attain the heat necessary at near ground level for the duration needed to melt wheels and engine blocks there would have to have been a very strong wind to keep the heat that low. Billowing smoke betrays the high velocity winds in some of the videos. Much deep, scientific and transparent investigation needs to be done.
One gets billowing smoke because a raging property fire has a massive drawing power with the capacity to create its own updrafts. https://www.facebook.com/heraldsun/photos/a.417370303170/10156496678453171/?type=3
All we want is the truth so thank you.
and Joe you must assemble the evidence, filter it objectively, somehow, to arrive at the truth
UNITE WITH GOD AND HIS SOLDIERS OF CHRIST, --- #DONOTCOMPLY --- TO ANY COMMUNIST DEMONICRAT EVILS. THESE ILLEGAL unmandates ARE COMMUNIST CRAP ILLEGAL TO OUR USA CONSTITUTION ON OUR USA LAND FORCED UPON US BY ILLEGAL USURPER DEMONICRAT INFILLTRATED BY COMMUNIST CHINA ETC,,,,. WE WILL NOT COMPLY -- clowse schwaubstikka is a communist it is our duty to take out any form of communist terrorists foreign and domestic IN or OUT Of OUR AMERICAN GOVT. ARM UP AGAINST THESE EVILS WE ARE ABIDING BY OUR LAWS OUR CONSTITUTION BECAUSE OF OUR CORRUPT TREASONOUS COMMUNIST INFILTRATED GOVT. WHICH IS PERFECTLY WRITTEN WE CAN FIGHT CONMMUNISM IT IS WRITTEN. THE DEMONICRATS ARE COMMUNISTS BY AIDING AND ABETTING illegals, izlam, china ,blm, antifa etc.,,,, THIS IS OUR AMERICA NOT NAZI schwaubstikka, gates, USURPER joes CCP etc..,,,,AMERICA DO NOT COMPLY UNITE WITH GOD AND LIKE MINDED CITIZENS UNITE. And He said to them, “But now,whoever has a money belt is to take it along, likewise also a bag, and whoever has no sword should sell his garment and buy one.⚔UNITE WITH GOD OUR HEAVENLY FATHER AND ALL THE LORDS BROTHERS AND SISTERS IN CHRIST, PRAY FOR ALL AND PREP SAVE THE CHILDREN --- The Glory of His Majesty “Declare His glory among the nations, His wonders among all peoples.” — Psalm 96:3🙏“Preach the Gospel”
“Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.”
Mark 16:15🙏 ---- Luke 22:36 ----- New International Version
He said to them, “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.
New Living Translation
“But now,” he said, “take your money and a traveler’s bag. And if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one!
English Standard Version
He said to them, “But now let the one who has a moneybag take it, and likewise a knapsack. And let the one who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one.
Berean Standard Bible
“Now, however,” He told them, “the one with a purse should take it, and likewise a bag; and the one without a sword should sell his cloak and buy one.
Berean Literal Bible
And He said to them, "But now, the one having a purse, let him take it, and likewise a bag; and the one having no sword, let him sell his cloak and buy one.
King James Bible
Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
New King James Version Then He said to them, “But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one.
New American Standard Bible
And He said to them, “But now, whoever has a money belt is to take it along, likewise also a bag, and whoever has no sword is to sell his cloak and buy one.