Gaza an autonomous, self governed territory whose government, Hamas, used its armed regulars and citizenry to organize and perpetrate an act of war against Israel.
The response by Israel is against the government of Gaza, which IS Hamas.
The idea that Hamas is just a terrorist entity in Gaza is beyond naive - it is Islamic propaganda. Hamas is the accepted and supported (according to every poll of Gazans) government of the population.
Every honest observer of any war effort knows civilian deaths are unavoidable. But every sentient citizen knows Hamas lies, at all times, because it is the Muslim Brotherhood. Any "death toll" reported by Hamas is, of course, questionable.
An act of war with hundreds of Israelis kidnapped and murdered, many still held hostage.
Nobody believes Hamas' data, simply because we know they shot their own citizens who did not comply. Would you be happy if MORE Israelis were killed by Hamas' act of war? Would that make it "fair"? The numbers are not an issue, obviously. You are just buying propaganda from the Muslim Brotherhood. Pity.
The only genocide is committed by Hamas, which has, for decades, engaged their army and citizenry in an acts of war against Israel. Self defense against murderers, kidnappers and rapists is hardly genocide, but you clearly don't know the meaning of the term because you accept propaganda from the Muslim Brotherhood as fact.
No one is, as yet seeking to murder all Gazans, except maybe Hamas, so they can blame Israel. The IDF goes far out of its way to warn Gazan civilians away from areas they intend to hit: why do you suppose they're allegedly dying in such numbers???
No they aren't; the IDF reports too... The reports seldom match up, of course, but you have 2 clearly different views of the situation. The truth is likely somewhere in between,where variance exists, but Gazan civilians have confirmed the IDF warnings,multiple times over the yrs, as well as Hamas' threats, and actual murders of those trying to leave a target area.
By your logic, that would mean that you are complicit in the microwaving of babies and all of the other barbaric actions that were committed that day. You support Hamas, Hamas committed atrocities, therefore you are complicit in their atrocities.
There were no babies microwaved that day. There weren't 40 beheaded babies, either. At to this day, the claim of rapes, cutting off of breasts, etc by Palestinians fighters, remains unproven to the point the Israeli police put out a call for people to come forward with evidence, because none of the lurid claims match up with any of the supposed victims. You are still pushing discredited Israeli hasbara narratives, all to try to cover for a very real genocide being committed by Israel, with full US backing.
I looked it up. It wasn’t a microwave, I apologize for the mistake.
BUT IT WAS AN OVEN. And babies and children WERE horribly murdered.
From NY Post
Nov1, 2023
Head of Israel’s EMS service describes horror of seeing babies slaughtered by Hamas
Excerpts from the article:
The head of Israel’s volunteer EMS squad described the unimaginable horrors he saw in the aftermath of Hamas’ vicious attack on Israel — including finding a baby in an oven — as the Israel Defense Forces ramped up its ground operations in Gaza.
The soldiers sliced open the stomach of a pregnant mother, “took out the baby, and stabbed the little tiny baby in front of her and then shot her in front of her family,” he said.
The militants then proceeded to kill the rest of the family living in the small kibbutz.
In a barbaric scene, Beer said his organization had even witnessed babies that had been placed in ovens.
“We saw a little baby in an oven,” Beer said. “These bastards put these babies in an oven and put on the oven. We found the kid a few hours later.”
“These are not regular enemies, these are not regular situations,” Beer added. “I saw little kids who were beheaded. We didn’t know which head belonged to which kid.”
There is much, much more.
The Israeli government is selectively screening an invitation only (instead of general release, due to victims privacy concerns) compilation of the horrors and atrocities recorded by the perpetrators and their victims that day. All that have seen it come out visibly shaken, with many crying.
These are the Hamas monsters who you are making excuses for.
When an act of war is committed by one nation against another, there will be civilian deaths, without question.
However, you have only chosen to condemn the Gaza deaths (and assumed their accuracy), not the wholesale slaughter and kidnapping of Israeli citizens.
No sentient person trusts Hamas' numbers. Your "hood" is simply Islamist propaganda which excuses an act of war by identifying with terrorists and their supporters.
You don't know how many of the "dead" are Hamas regulars, armed Hamas supporters or "innocent" civilians. Nobody does. But everybody knows Israeli soldiers put themselves in harm's way to protect civilians, while Islamic terrorists actively target the innocent.
Hamas are lying monsters because, for decades, they have demonstrably lied to the world. The government of Gaza is Hamas. All news of the war is filtered through agents of these murdering, raping tyrants.
You are drinking Muslim Brotherhood Kool-aid, sir.
I don't only condemn Gaza deaths, I also condemn Israel deaths. But now it's a case of the most powerful wiping out their enemy because they can. After all this time, human beings haven't been able to figure out how to fix things without acting like apes. If you had a 7 year old and an 8 year old and they fought with each other would you think it was okay for the older, bigger child to kill the other? Absolutely not. So why can't these "so called" leaders" do better than that?
Nations and peoples aren’t children but here’s the answer to your question:
Because the younger child continues to try and slit the older ones throat in the middle of the night.
And promises to keep doing it no matter what until the older one is dead.
The parents keep deluding themselves that the younger one doesn’t really mean it so they throw money and presents at him and ask him to be good and play nice, which he may do for a little while...... until everyone relaxes and tells themselves (and the older child) that the younger was just going through a bad stage..... at which point the younger kid waits until everyone is asleep and then he tries to slit the older one’s throat, ONCE AGAIN.
And yes, the older one occasionally beats the shit out of the younger one after the attempted throat cuttings.
Are you not aware that IDF WARNS Gaza civilians away from targeted areas, even to the point of personally telephoning them? Or that HAMAS SHOOTS any who try to flee such areas??? If not, perhaps you need better information about why those numbers are so high.
Thank you for this well thought out and balanced approach to this topic. We are Christian supporters of Israel who have been there twice, the last time on October 7th. But, we also admit to being very disturbed by what is happening in Gaza as well as questioning the failure of the normally super effective Israeli intelligence and defence forces to prevent the attacks.
This conflict poses a dilemma that seems impossible to resolve fairly for either side. It is naive to expect the perpetrators of October 7 to step up to admit their guilt and take the consequences and thus be the only ones who will be held to account. But, however accurate the numbers of dead are, too many innocent people have died on both and are dying, including children. It’s a tragic situation which seems unresolvable.
There is no question that we do not know what is going on in Gaza. The U.N and international aid agencies cannot be trusted, not can we trust Hamas. That said, the pressure is on the Israelis to minimize casualties, and there is little doubt they are doing so.
As to the failure of Israeli intelligence, that clearly happened, just as it did in the Yom Kippur war. Failures should result in change, but that investigation is unlikely until Gaza is secured.
We do not know how many children or "innocent citizens" have died at the hands of the IDF - the agencies working with Hamas are proven to be corrupt and incapable and the Hamas propaganda is good enough to fool most people.
We can be as sure that non-combatants die in war as the belligerents - but that hardly ever kept any participants, throughout history, from avoiding conflict.
It is a tragic situation, brought upon Gaza by their Government, Hamas.
Do you believe 911 was a crime or a terrorist attack? Was the response logical? Did Sadam, Assad or anyone other than Saudis fly planes into the towers? Do you actually believe that planes fuel dropped these building into their own footprint? Do you believe in Unicorns? You are an apologist for Zionist terrorists.
9/11 was an "inside" job, and nanothermite dropped all the buildings. Jet fuel doesn't burn hot enough! Neither would a side impact drop them in their footprints, it should topple them over like felled trees. As for the Saudis and planes, where were the engines, wings and tail assemblies, all of which should've ripped off and fallen away? Where those planes and people all actually went, I don't know, but they didn't hit those buildings, or crash in that PA field either. People "saw" what they expected, and were told, to see, not what really was. Holograms perhaps.
I didn’t mean for my comment to be rude, I just can’t deal with any more conspiracy theories. Covid and the globalist/leftist agenda are enough to keep me occupied.
I can understand that. I grew up very aware of crash reports, because my Dad was an airline pilot, and got fascinated by how the investigators could uncover the cascade involved in crashes, so still watch and learn from them. I don't like lies being palmed off as "facts", and in recent decades more of those conspiracy " theories" have proven true, than not. The same kind of thing happened in MN with George Floyd and Derek Chauvin, where people "saw" what they were told to see, not what reality presented. Officer Chauvinism no more killed George Floyd than I did. The autopsy report showed a significant fentanyl overdose, and that there was NO injury oh to Floyd's neck, internally or externally, because Chauvinism knee was on his scapula,where bruising was found, but hate, fear, and lies ruined 4 cops' lives.
When planes impact buildings from a side, head on, the impact rips wings, engines, and the tail assembly off, and those fall away, essentially in tact. Those couldn't just vanish. Where did they go? Then there's the little fact that nothing hit building 7... yet it also collapsed into its footprint... And that other little fact that the débris was found to be heavily contaminated by nanothermite, 1 of the substances NO commercial aircraft has carried at least since the '50s, not even cargo flights. Where did that come from? Nanothermite is used in urban building demolition... Sometimes a conspiracy really IS a conspiracy. Our gov't has been pulling them a long time, actually. I've lived through too many to just chuck an idea as implausible anymore.
Here's a question for you: If the buildings weren't actually brought down by the planes, if they were brought down by planted explosives, they why did they fly the fucking planes into them?
Are you so sure they did? Where was the crash evidence if such? Other building impacts didn't swallow up the planes so entirely; I doubt those did either.
In this one instance, maybe. Violent attacks from Gaza against Israel have been ongoing for decades and are only ramping up. If Hamas isn't defeated and utterly destroyed it will just keep happening.
Fighting for your right to peacefully exist against an active enemy which doesn't recognize that right is not meant to be an equitable endeavor. Sometimes 'them or us' is an inescapable reality. Sometimes 'tit for tat' just doesn't cut the mustard.
Here's a logical exercise for you. Suppose the US had responded to the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor by killing 2,403 Japanese and calling things even? Do you think we'd live in a better world, today, because of that?
The retaliation is much too much. This Japan example is parrelled to this current war. Thousands are killed and hundreds of thousands are killed in retaliation. The massive repercussion to Japan had lasting harms on following generations. This was overkill. I don't think a better world is when the powerful obliterate the weak and the physically "safe on the sidelines" people are living so far from the reality of atrocities they condone it. An eye for an eye and the whole world is blind.
Gaza is an ongoing threat to the safety of Israel. They've stated that they intend to destroy Israel and kill as many Jews as they can and they are CURRENTLY ENGAGED IN DOING SO!
Israel is engaged in eliminating an existential threat to their very existence. What's so hard to understand about that?
Sure. Gaza says that. But everything you say about Gaza could be substituted with the word Israel. It's all the same. There is no "live and let live" on either side. Aren't people just people? Could you literally look in the face of a 5 year old and kill them. Do you believe in genocide? Where will this lead? Will nations look back and respect these people?
You literally know nothing at all about this, do you? Israel could have wiped the Palestinian people off the face of the Earth any time they wanted to and they haven't. The Palestinians would like nothing better than to kill every Jew on Earth, they just can't.
Preposterous! Please cite your sources. Caroline Glick mentioned that she encountered this version of Holocaust denial immediately after her first comments on X.
I believe she's referring to collateral damage when the IDF mistakenly killed a few Israeli's during the battle. It's hardly evidence that they orchestrated the whole thing but it's all irrational people need to believe whatever nonsense they want to.
It does not matter how many died in "vengeance", though the number is unquestionably inaccurate; all those murdered in Israel were completely innocent. Those murdered by Israel were guilty. If Hamas would stop hiding behind children and women, if Hamas would stop hiding in hospitals, this would not occur.
What I am saying is that Hamas uses children as human shields. They teach their children at a young age that their duty is to strap on a bomb and kill Israelis. Maybe Israel is run by evil people. But when Hamas teaches their children nothing but evil and hatred, that's what they get. And when they hide behind children, why the fuck are people complaining about Israel. I'll tell you why. They are idiots who hate Israel. Kill Hamas and I'll listen to your criticism of Israel.
The fear of vengeance (or more accurately retribution) is a good reason to avoid murdering people in the first place. And that wasn’t everyday, street crime type murder, it was a series of atrocities that were committed during a massacre.
I don’t think that microwaving a baby in front of its mother can be considered simple murder..... and that was only one example of the many atrocities that were committed that day.
I don’t know the source of your casualty figures (if from Hamas or other Palestinian sources, then they are questionable at best), but the Israelis have done what they can to prevent civilian deaths.
Avoiding civilian casualties is a hard thing to do when the guilty are using civilians and hostages as shields and hospitals as military bases.....
No, Gaza was NOT "an autonomous, self-governed territory" before October 7th. It was a huge concentration camp, with all entry and exit of people and goods controlled by Israel. Israeli officials openly boasted of "putting the Palestinians on a diet" by restricting food supplies to barely above a starvation level. Periodically, Israel would "mow the lawn" (think about that sociopathic phrase for a minute) by bombing the densely populated area, killing hundreds of children, along with even more adults. Israel destroyed the airport. Israel shot up the boats of Gazan fishermen if they ventured more than a couple of kilometers off shore - which meant they were still in polluted waters, courtesty of Israel having destroyed the water and sewage treatment facilities. You'd be better off thinking of October 7th as a prison outbreak or a slave revolt, which tend to be violent. The Palestinian fighters attacked Israeli military facilities: those of the forces that enforced the imprisonment of Gaza. And they sought to take as many hostages as possible, to exchange for the many thousands of Palestinians Israel holds, often without charges or trial, including children. The Palestinians could very easily have adopted the language of the Israeli state, and said their actions on October 7th were "mowing the lawn" in Israel. You would be outraged by that, right? Well, I wish for you exactly what you with for the Palestinians. Do you see that as a blessing, or a curse? Look in the mirror. In the meantime, cut the crap by trying to diminish the death toll in Gaza from Israel's industrial-level slaughter. We can see it on our screens. UN and other agencies are reporting levels of death and destruction beyond anything they've experienced, anywhere in recent times. Better to look at the lies of the Israeli government, particularly regarding the Israeli military killing likely hundreds of Israelis on October 7th with Hellfire missiles from helicopters, and tank shells fired into houses at kibbutzim. It's in the Israeli new media, but the US press barely touches the story.
total lie. hundred of thousands of Gazans regularly commuted into Israel daily to work. Hamas is a terror organization and Gaza as a people united behind them to seek the elimination of Israel. Now the tables are turned.
No, there were, according to Reuters, 18,000 Palestinians in Gaza who had permits to work in Israel, not "hundreds of thousands." And those 18,000 had to awaken in the middle of the night to begin their hours-long "commute," which included passing through the fences, gates, surveillance cameras, and whims of the armed Israeli guards. The nicest gloss you could put on this is that it resembled the treatment of Blacks in apartheid South Africa; otherwise, at best, it was work-permit furlough from the Gaza prison. You have a completely upside down vision of reality.
Prior to the US proxy war in Ukraine, Israel was the number 1 recipient of US "foreign aid." Egypt was #2, payoff to the Egyptian regime for signing a deal with Israel, and to ensure that Egypt followed Israel's orders ever since. The Rafah crossing is effectively controlled by Israel.
Right now, Israel demands inspection of the measly trickle of humanitarian aid allowed in to Gaza - and removes all the anesthesia medicines. So doctors in Gaza are performing amputation, Caeserian sections, and more without anesthesia. This is the criminal state you support. The fact remains: Gaza is completely controlled by Israel. Remote-controlled machine guns in towers around the whole area. Fences and walls. Surveillance (and assassination) drones flying overhead. No access by air or sea. All land entrances and exits a gauntlet of gates, with guns pointed at the Palestinians. Chris Hedges, the great journalist who covered the wars in Central America, and the Balkans, was for a lengthy time the Middle East Bureau Chief for the NY Times. He reported, well over a decade ago, that Gaza was the only place he'd ever seen soldiers shoot children for sport. He damn well knows what Israel's control over Gaza really is, and he's not the least bit hesitant to say what's happening now is a genocide. Take your vulgar insults and shove them into your own chosen orifice.
You miss my point. Nobody, and I mean nobody, ever condemns Egypt. So therefore, I know you all just hate Israel and don't give a fuck about Gaza. As for the US, I want to stop giving away foreign aid, and to get out of other countries business. Again, you keep blaming Israel for the lack of humanitarian aid. YOU ARE A FAKE. If you loved Gaza, you would condemn Egypt. You don't. You literally don't give a fuck about Gaza. You just hate Israel.
Your point is misguided, as you are blinded by your desire to defend Israel while it perpetrates an industrial scale slaughter. Do you not understand that the Egyptian regime is a paid-off subcontractor of the Israeli siege on Gaza? If Egypt tried to open the Rafah gates to let in food, water, medical supplies, tents, clothing, etc, one or both of two things would happen in very short order: Israel would bomb the truck convoys and all the people involved in it; and the United States would cut off the funding of the Egyptian government. It isn't Egypt that is using US-supplied planes to drop US-supplied bombs on Gaza, it is Israel. That's the hard reality you need to face, Mike Wood. The entire world is watching this massacre. It's not some horror perpetrated far away, decades or centuries ago. It's happening right now, implemented by Israel with the complete support of the United States. It is the United States (not Egypt, FFS) that could end this in a minute. Earlier US administrations have given a sharp yank on the Israeli choke collar, and Israel came to heel immediately. Eisenhower did it during the Suez crises. Reagan phoned Begin, and within minutes Israel ceased its destruction of Beirut. Biden (or whoever is animating the doddering old man we think is Joe Biden) has the power to do the same, but chooses not to. Stop trying to pass off this US/Israeli genocide onto bit players like Egypt. Why do you think so many people around the world are expressing opposition to Israel right now? It's because Israel is doing hateful things, and those of us with a speck of humanity left want it to stop - especially when it's being aided and abetted by our own country, or in the name of our own religion.
I'm right on point. You are criticizing Israel without ANY condemnation of Egypt or the US. The US should get the fuck out of all wars. We don't have any right to stop Israel or to give it money. Israel has plenty of money. Egypt has plenty of money. Hamas has way too much money and I hope all the leaders get tortured to death. But you hate Israel. You don't give a fuck about Hamas. Get real. Every rational country hates Hamas whether it is Egypt, Jordon, or Syria. And the people running US are evil. And maybe the people running Israel are also evil. But you just irrationally hate Israel. Hamas deserves to be killed to the last single person. Then after Hamas is completely destroyed, we can talk about the evil Israel has done. So stop hiding your anti-Israel comments behind fake concern for the population. If you care about the population, Egypt is your best bet to criticize. Unlike Israel, Egypt has no excuse to not help Hamas. And yes, the US shouldn't give ANY money to Israel or Egypt but especially Iran who we literally gave the money to kill those in Israel. You show your true colors by not condemning Hamas. If what you say is true, that Egypt won't help Hamas because of money, the makes what Egypt does ten times worse than anything Israel has done. But you only condemn Israel, because you are anti-Israel. Condemn Hamas first, and maybe you'd have some credibility to me.
Genocidal is when you kill people just because you don't like them. Like say when Hamas kills innocent people, but especially Israelites, vowing to kill every single Jew in the region. Justice is when you kill the people who purposely murdered innocent people, especially children. Torturing Hamas is Justice. Do you think crossing a border into another country and slaughtering innocent people should not be a crime? What would you do if Hamas came to America, killed your child, and tortured your elderly mom? Is that acceptable? Should that be rewarded? Or should that be punished?
Actually, Egypt also blockades Gaza and even stricter than Israel does.
"The Arab Physicians Union officials submitted a request to Egyptian authorities on 3 June 2010 to send 400 tons of food, blankets, electric generators for hospitals and construction material from Egypt to Gaza, but the request was denied by Egyptian authorities without specific reason." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_imports
That's what I figured. But everyone I hear complaining about Israel is that Israel blockades Gaza and only allows what they want to go to Gaza. I knew that's a complete lie because Gaza borders Egypt. Thanks for the info!
"[A]ll entry and exit of people and goods controlled by Israel?" Really? Who's keeping them from crossing the Egyptian border? That would be Egypt. Who is restricting trade across the Egyptian border? That would be Egypt.
The Israelis would love it if the Gazans would go to Egypt. They've even suggested it.
"The Egyptian government has steadfastly opposed admitting Gaza residents into Egypt, including Israeli and other suggestions that Gaza residents could be temporarily housed in neighboring Sinai. Egyptian officials seek, at almost all costs, to avoid the refugee burden that such regional states as Jordan, Lebanon, Türkiye, and other states have borne in hosting large refugee populations from Iraq and Syria that fled wars there. Some Egyptian leaders suspect that Israel - in order to ensure that no threat re-emerges from Gaza - seeks to permanently displace Gaza’s civilian population in Egypt and other parts of the Arab world. From a security standpoint, Egyptian authorities also fear adding to the decade-long terrorism threat emanating from Islamic State affiliates and other Islamist factions operating in the Sinai Peninsula. Some Egyptian officials reportedly assess that Hamas or other Palestinian militants would operate in any refugee camps in the Sinai and potentially empower existing Sinai militant groups." https://thesoufancenter.org/intelbrief-2023-november-13/#:~:text=The%20Egyptian%20government%20has%20steadfastly,temporarily%20housed%20in%20neighboring%20Sinai.
Get the picture? Egypt doesn't want to deal with Gazan terrorists anymore than Israel or ANYONE ELSE in the Middle East.
70 percent of the residents of Gaza are refugees from Palestine, driven out by Zionists taking over their land, or their descendants. This includes those Israel packed onto trucks in Ashekelon in 1954, driven over the border into Gaza, and then dumped there. Israel is the occupying power in Gaza and the West Bank, subject to all international law. You want to push this responsibility off onto Egypt, or Jordan - and now you want to push 2.3 million residents of Gaza into Egypt, too. At least you're honest about it, as were the early Zionist leaders of Israel, and the current lunatics in Netanyahoo's cabinet. You've exposed yourself as war criminals. Wear it well. While you're at it, why don't you embrace your terrorism, as the founders of Israel did? Go full bore, be proud of it. Let the world see you as you are.
You are full of crap, and you know it! Where do you get off talking about autonomy in an enslaved outdoor prison. Israel is a stolen land that had people on it before the Zionists stole it. Not a legitimate state, never was never will be. The entire story is a lie, and the history proves it.
The problem I have John is that I've seen no comprehensive description of what has been destroyed, both in terms of the percentage of Gaza leveled as well as the number of people killed (other than reports from known partisan sources). The images, like the one you presented here, are reminiscent of the images I saw early on in the Ukraine war. I believe we all want the truth, but we're constantly being bombarded with propaganda.
I also believe most Americans would want Israel to go to great lengths to avoid killing Gaza civilians, while not placing their own military in greater danger.
As far as the oddity of how Israel missed the invasion, sure, did seem odd. But, as anyone who's ever worked in the military or government knows, bureaucracy is almost never efficient, nor responsive. To think that their bureaucracy would be to any degree different is, in my opinion, placing too much credit with Israel.
Can you elucidate what you would have Israel do differently (i.e. more specifically how a "law enforcement" response would look like materially? This is the problem I have with Glen Greenwald. I have yet to hear what he would have Israel do differently.
Oh, stop. Just LOOK at the pictures coming out of Gaza for godsakes. Channel 4 out of the UK and Al Jazeera both do stellar jobs of reporting on the carnage. OUR U.S. media sure doesn’t!!!
Yes. Definitely. There are numerous pictures of destruction from Israel bombing of Gaza.
What we aren't getting is perspective in each of these cases.
Israel is saying that they are notifying each area before they bomb along with giving the civilians free passage out of the soon-to-be-bombed area. Of course, it appears that Hamas shoots at the people attempting to flee.
More importantly, we aren't getting an overall picture of percentages of Gaza that has been destroyed. At least I haven't seen it yet. I'd like to see details that both sides generally agree with.
I hate to say this but I kinda feel played a bit here. It's clear in the comments that we are proving John's point to some degree (i.e. you either see it from one side or the other.)
Here's the rub John...Saying two sides disagree and come with a predefined lens with which to see says nothing about what the truth actually is.
I'll choose to stick with the search for truth despite how I'm labeled in the process.
Look at aerial views. Anyone can do this. They’ve bombed northern Gaza into the Stone Age. Not only that, I highly disagree that the Israelis are “notifying each area before they bomb”- this is completely false. What they “say” they do and what they are doing, are two different things. Did you even watch the UN hearings on South Africa’s accusations of genocide? The pictures are there and the words used by Israel officials are there in black and white for anyone to see…. Netanyahu needs to GO. He’s a psychopath, as are some of his cohorts and he certainly isn’t helping Israel’s standing in the world. In fact, he’s utterly destroying it. That can’t be good for the Jewish people. Or Gazans. Nobody wins but the arms makers and the people who will profit from the acquisition of Gazan lands and off-shore areas where millions upon millions of dollars are waiting to be made in oil and gas. It’s a disgusting display of genocide and the Israeli government should be punished severely for it. “Never again” means never again- for anyone, not just the Jews. Kudos to all the Jewish people standing up against this mass murder of Palestinians!!
I understand what you are saying Mel. I just know that;
1. As I mentioned before, I don't know the context of those aerial photos (i.e. this photo was when this was bombed for such and such a reason and the civilians were or were not notified, etc.)
2. The UN has been anti-Israel for almost my entire lifetime, even siding with Arafat frequently.
3. I need to see trustworthy numbers of deaths in Gaza.
4. If Israel is trying to take over Gaza to profit from offshore oil plays, why didn't they do that before now? That argument sounds reminiscent of the only reason we went into Iraq was for the oil. Ridiculous. I disagreed with the Iraq invasion, but we didn't profit from the oil in Iraq.
5. Would you have said only the arms makers win during WWII?
This is not WW2… but it might lead to WW3 if the war mongering US government doesn’t get reigned in and soon, along with Israel. You should listen to Canadian journalist Trish Wood on her podcasts. She recently had on a Dr Khan, who is an ophthalmologist, who spent a few weeks operating on all the orbital globe injuries being inflicted on kids to adults from the relentless bombing. Listen and read from all sources. Trish Wood Is Critical podcast is one I wish everyone would listen to. She’s a top notch journo and has been for several decades. Cheers.
I never heard of Trish Wood. Just perused her substack and youtube. At one point she quotes someone saying at least 75% of the homes are destroyed. A video further along in her same article shows an emergency vehicle driving through a mostly undestroyed town.
What would you do if your neighbor was throwing yard darts into your yard where your children play...all the while yelling death to you and your family?
Remember, most of those civilians are human shields.
They could end all this now if they would surrender themselves to the IDF. The killing of civilians would end.
If the IDF pulled out, the killing of Jews would continue unabated.
Oh, wait! They should just negotiate with Hamas. Have you seen the wall between Gaza and Egypt?
Oh the irony of south africa accusing israel of genocide. A racist failed state, killing white farmers for a land grab. Hardly the bastion of human rights.
South African government has rectified their many wrongs over the decades of abuse of the people who lived there long before the Europeans came…. So… there. They are the PERFECT state to bring up the genocide the Israelis are perpetrating upon the Pals. Good for South Africa!!!
I surmise from your comment that you trust the message (ok to kill Dutch colonial farm owners to seize land) because you find moral superiority in the messenger (who have "rectified" the government).
I’ll bet that ch 4 in the UK and Al Jazeera didn’t show the videos that the terrorists themselves posted on the internet, bragging about the murders, rapes, and all of the other barbarous crimes that they committed .....things so awful that they almost make the Nazis look humane by comparison.
If they don’t show those videos to provide context, then they are just a propaganda tool for Hamas....
The mainstream media can not be trusted! It was only a few weeks ago the New York Times and numerous other outlets hysterically accused IDF of destroying a hospital, only it wasn't true. The photo they published was not of a hospital at all and the number of reported dead was a complete fabrication. They lie all the time.
I don't say any of this in justification of Israel or Hamas. I am only pointing out EVERYTHING any legacy media outlet reports should be greeted with skepticism.
You wrote: "I also believe most Americans would want Israel to go to great lengths to avoid killing Gaza civilians, while not placing their own military in greater danger."
This is exactly why modern armies with advanced technologies Don't use infantry assault against dense, urban, strong hold held by fanatical soldiers, willing to die in suicide at tacks. Less soldier die that way - military prefer bombs from a distance.
We did not choose to avoid civilian casualties in Mosul, we flattened much of it.
Sure, but I've seen numerous videos of IDF doing just that...going from building to building and calling in air support as needed. Probably similar to Mosul, right?
They are not punishing Gaza people, they are trying to find the terrorists and their hostages, unfortunately terrorists are so embedded into civilian population. As you are an intellectual, I find it strange that you discard/not informed enough about urban warfare?
The IDF has destroyed most of the homes and infrastructure of Gaza. This is genocide. And national suicide. What is to stop the Moslem peoples of the world from coming down on Israel as Israel has done with Gaza?
I guess the Israelis could have issued summons to court to the perpetrators, you know, like the ones being given to illegals breaking into our country. The rate of compliance with them is less than 5%. If you really want to see destruction on a massive scale, look at drone footage of what our Iraqi, Kurdish, and Christian allies did to Irbil, Haditha, and various other cities in Iraq and Syria, with much help from us, when destroying ISIS. Not even close. Hamas has broken 15 truces: the Israelis, none.
Lastly, if we do into an exchange with the Russians, remember we provoked that war after 30 years of warnings from three different Russian leaders not to bring Ukraine into NATO (the EU was fine by them). Again, no comparison
There is a binary choice in the Israeli issue. Your either okay with evil and it’s stated desire and goal of killing all Jews and destroying the state of Israel or your on the side of Israel and humanity and peace. It’s that simple. Israel has to destroy the Evil which is Hamas if there is to be peace. Hamas can end this tomorrow and save thousands of lives. They have chosen to do otherwise. There is zero moral equivalence here. There is only one measure that matters. Israel wins and Hamas loses. Pick your side. There is no middle ground. War is hell but Hamas picked it. Israel will finish it. The most human thing Israel can do is to defeat them as quickly and completely as possible. All civilians deaths are on Hamas just as all civilian deaths in Japan and Germany during WWII were because of their leader’s.
"Since 1966, thirteen Israelis have been awarded the Nobel Prize, the most honorable award in various fields including chemistry, economics, literature and peace. Israel has more Nobel Prizes per capita than the Germany, United States and France. It has more laureates, in real numbers, than India, China and Spain. Israel is 11th in Nobel prize per capita, just after the United Kingdom at 10th. If only scientific laureates are taken into account, Israel is 13th in Nobel prize per capita, just after Germany, 11th, and the United States, 12th."
Page after page after page of them, not just in the Middle East but throughout the rest of the World too, bombings, hijackings and atrocities from Japan to Argentina and everywhere in between, recently excelling themselves on 07/10 by burning babies alive in ovens, tying children together with wire, pouring petrol over them and setting them on fire, all the while filming themselves and finding it highly entertaining.
So while Israelis have been contributing disproportionately to the sum of human knowledge - the Intel processor was designed in Israel in 1972, for example
"Palestinians" have contributed only blood and death and terror, their most significant contribution being the child suicide bomber.
Which would YOU support, a nation that in has contributed massively to humanity over millennia or a gang of pre-Medieval savage filth that believe it is clever to burn babies alive in front of their mothers, tape over a pregnant woman’s mouth, cut her breasts off and play catch with them, cut out her baby and behead it in front of her while she was still alive, all the while laughing and joking and filming themselves to put it on the Internet?
I know which side I’m on - and it sure as Hell isn’t the “Palestinian” savages.
How many Israeli Nobel Prizes ? Where did they originated from? Right Nazi Germany Paperclip project....NASA, Silicon Valley, R&D biological warfare, psyops, torture, propaganda,......
Well honey I live on a sunshine island, and I can see for miles and miles who got his true feelings hurt. There are many pigs here, not one is a fascist so you certainly must be y he only one
Hilarious lack of self-awareness to repeat TDS media talking points all the while professing the dangers of doing so. TDS is like HIV. Most people who have it aren't even aware they do.
My wife suggested Sound of Freedom. I was moved to tears watching the movie. I googled it afterwards to learn how much was true. This was opening weekend. Google was littered with attacks on the movie. I was speechless. Someone in the office recommended it. A supervisor ended up sending out a blast email urging everyone to boycott. They work for a looney bin level left company. Amazing.
Sound of Freedom was a difficult topic handled extremely well. I followed Be Slavery Free (formerly Stop The Traffick) for years here in Australia and stopped when they made not one chirp about the movie that was literally all about their supposed interest. Leftism is poison.
Are you aware that Google is now a poor excuse for a politically “fair & balanced” search engine? They show you what they want you to see, to skew public opinion in whatever direction they desire by front-loading your searches with mostly or only articles they want you to see. They almost always lean left, sometimes hard left, and would be proud to know your supervisor took the action they were promoting. Use DuckDuckGo from now on. And there are supposedly better search engines than that, especially when it comes to things political or controversial. For an eye-opener, see the documentary, “The Creepy Line.”
I am horrified reading all these anti-Semitic comments. Scripture tells us anti-Semitism will increase in the end days, but it’s shocking to witness just how distorted the thinking is here. Hamas put babies in ovens and tied up their parents forcing them to listen to the screams of their infants slow, painful, torturous death. They burned people alive and forced their families to listen to their screams. They beheaded family members right in front of each other. They so brutally raped little children (boys and girls) to the point of breaking bones, tearing their insides apart and even rape until death...TO BABIES AND CHILDREN. It is literally in the Hamas charter (available online) to annihilate the entire country of Israel and all the Jewish people. (Christians also). To not see that Hamas cannot continue to be a threat to the nation of Israel is truly to be on the side of Satan. Hamas has committed to never wanting peace with Israel. They only want their death. They cannot coexist in one nation together. You either want annihilation of the Jews, or annihilation of Hamas. Many on here have made clear the side they are on.
Thank you. I read some of the articles about the atrocities committed by Hamas but I didn’t watch the videos. The descriptions of the horrors from survivors are sickening..... I never believed that human beings were capable of such...... I don’t have the words.....yes I do....
I would be interested to see an example of an 'anti-Semitic comment' you say you're reading here, because I'm getting a bit tired of the broadly used slur/oppression.
So if you are not listening to the reporters that are from their i.e. Amir Tsfarti, a Major, reserve now, in the IDF your theory would be correct, we need not throw the baby out with the bathwater. What is the truth is that most Arabs living in GAZA are infiltrated into this area and have been for. years helping the Hesbollah to build tunnels and under and around hospitals and schools ...most of who you call the collateral damage, besides the hostages, were helping these demonic group and not just helping they are part of them. They dress as civilians and hide behind children ~~No Isreal needs to do what Isreal is doing and we all need to get out of the way lest WE incur the wrath of GOD
There is no Biblical mandate that puts carnal Jews above any other nation in God's sight. An Israelite is one who overcomes himself by clinging to God. In God's view, it has nothing to do with human bloodline, but rather spiritual bloodline.
Matthew 3:9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
John 1:47 Jesus saw Nathanael coming to him, and said of him, Behold an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile!
Romans 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Romans 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
Galatians 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Hagar. 25 For this Hagar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answers to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. 26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
Philippians 3:2 ...beware of the concision. 3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.
Galatians 3:29 And if you be Christ’s, then are you Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.
We only incur the wrath of God, by indulging in sin. If making an honest criticism of the actions of a nation that calls itself Israel, would incur the wrath of God, then Jesus should have incurred the wrath of God when He pointed out their sins.
I recommend joining Amir Tsfarti's Telegram channel to understand exactly what is happening in Gaza. If you wish to see how Israel is visiting destruction on the targets, tunnels etc, its shown daily, you will see it with plenty of videos. If you wish to understand the wider involvement in the Gazan people and the Islamic global agenda in seeking destruction of Israel and Jews and Christians you will see that as well.
The hostages were and are being held in ordinary Gazans homes- starved, assaulted and licked in rooms. Ordinary Gazans. Women , children and men came over the border, stole vehicles, shot the men , kidnapped the women and children. These people were not conservatives Hews but ones that thought they could live in peace with the Arabs. They would ferry sick Gazans to hospital, leave peace symbols on the fences and general try to be good neighbours. They no longer see the western mistaken differentiation between Hamas and good Gazans. This will be my last comment on your site. This is all very ignorant to not understand that the Arabs want what the Nazis wanted - complete extermination of the Jewish people . Then who will they come for? After Saturday comes Sunday. The west has facilitated the murder of the Jewish people with its vacuous support of Iran and Qatar.
Agreed Jillian. In fact truth be told many many of the Jews who were killed on Oct 7 were extremely supportive of Gaza and went out of their way to help them. They were murdered by animals.
Israel was the victim of something horrible and justice was forthcoming.
However, a horrible act of terrorism should not be a license to commit genocide and to carpet bomb an entire population. There is no justification for what is currently happening, the way it is happening. You can’t just claim there were military people in an area and destroy an entire city. At least you should not do it. That is a war crime.
In the US, the left got their war. Now the right has their war. The war mongering has got to stop. People are dying while others make massive profits and we just keep shoveling money to fund more wars. Is this leading to peace? No. Take the money out of the equation and see what happens. I would wager if we cut all funding to foreigners wars, there would be a lot less of them. Even if not, at least we wouldn’t be going further bankrupt by funding violence around the globe. Let other countries fight their own wars. We can focus on defending our people and fixing our troubles. We can not and should not fund the entire world’s endless wars! The Military Industrial Complex wants us to believe otherwise.
The Israelis settled on a strip of unimproved desert land and created what might be called a quasi garden in that desert - after it had been part of a vast desert for eons. Why does not one praise their constructive efforts? Why did not the indigenous peoples observe and learn from them? What am I missing here?
From what I've read the local Arabs worked contentedly in the Rothschild-funded land purchase farms, up until the time their state was handed over by "the winners'', or something like that.
I've seen videos promoting what you are describing. But there still is a lot of desert in Israel, and there are also gardens and cultivated areas in Syria and Lebanon. I don't think much of the same development can take place in Gaza (certainly not now), since they are not a free nation, but are restricted in many ways.
Genocide is genocide no matter who commits it. Call it what it is. Indiscriminate mass murder. It appears the Israelis learned nothing from the Holocaust. To wage war on the citizens of Palestine for the actions of 1 in 200,000 shows how patently false their reasoning is. There are many followers of Judaism who are as appalled as we are at the atrocities being. How are the murders of 20,000 innocent men, women and children in any way rational? You are entirely right. If we don't all come to our senses this type of behaviour could easily lead To nuclear war.
"Genocide is genocide no matter who commits it," in this case, is simply a tautology since only an idiot could believe that Israel is engaged in genocide.
Are you really that ignorant or are you simply that brainwashed? People like you are the very reason 50,000,000 people died in WW ll. Get your head out of your ass and take an honest look at the world as it now is.
Germany, Italy, and Japan were responsible for all of the deaths in WWII, shit for brains.
Hamas and the Palestinian people that support them are responsible for what's happening to Palestine now, as well as for all the Israelis they've killed, kidnapped, and tortured over the decsdes they've been doing it. You can argue all you want that there's a better way for Israel to achieve it's security, if you have one (which you don't, of course), but whatever the outcome of Palestine's continued aggression against Israel, the fault lies with them.
Those wo forget history are doomed to repeat it. It was the Versailles treaty imposed on Germany after WW L that was the direct cause of WW II . Israel was stolen from the Palestinians by way of the Balfour Act which guaranteed that there would never be peace in the Middle East. Great Britain and the U.S.A. in conjunction with Israel are the biggest purveyors of war and unrest in the entire world. I don't even know why I waste my time trying to enlighten willfully blind people who have swallowed the blue pills distributed by the Western propaganda machine.
You know there's a case running right now in The Hague against Israel for genocide? It's being brought by South Africa. They are asking for a stay in the violence.
Oh, well, if someone is being sued by someone, they must be guilty--right? This is your argument?
That case will drag on for years and, like everything else the UN is involved in, will be a circus. South Africa, itself, is in hot water for genocidal rhetoric and behavior against whites. Is it any wonder that it would ally itself with another genocidal entity?
If you are looking for more apt analogy, people whose country was claimed by imperialists and oppressed would probably sympathise with people whose country was claimed by imperialists and oppressed.
My post was to point out that Israeli genocide is under discussion in The Hague right now.
John, I believe you are way off on the Palestinian situation. It did not start on October 7th. How about October 6th Zionist Crimes against Palestinians and back 100 years. Those Occupied like the Palestinians or the Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto in WWII have a Right, and arguably a Duty, to Resist the Occupation by most any means necessary. The Occupier has no rights. Because of the Illegal Occupation of Palestine the Palestinians have been Ethnically Cleansed, Genocided, Mass Child Sacrificed and Apartheid for for many decades. Terribly many Jewish Israel's were murdered too but at about a rate of 100 plus Palestinians to 1 Jewish Israeli.
The Palestinians have no Air Force, Navy, Standing Army, Artillery, Iron Dome to protect them and Zionists control their access to food, water, fuel, electric, gas, medicines etc. All Financed and Supported my most all Murderous US Governments for 76 years!
Many Zionist Leaders Openly Call for and Preach in the Media ETHNIC CLEANSING, GENOCIDE, MASS CHILD SACRIFICE AND APARTHEID!
THIS IS PSYCHOTC AND INSANE.
Please utilize your huge skills, energy and intelligence to investigate it deeper and 911
With all due respect, is there a way to receive email updates from only Dr. McCullough's posts? If Mexicans came across the southern border and raped, tortured, kidnapped, and/or killed over 1000 people - and this is crucial - with the consent, support, and protection of the government of Mexico - I don't think you would be advocating a "law enforcement response".
Using your analogy, I think Leake is actually suggesting that the '1000 Mexicans' came across the border with the permission of the US government. #Patterns
Why are you so sure about that? That Leake would dictate a response entirely out of emotion?
Lots and lots and lots of folk here suggesting its all fine. OK. If the numbers of dead Gazians and Gazian children are lies.... but if you ponder that they are likely true or fairly true, the response could fairly be described as wholely disproportionate. And anti God as well, thats a lot of innocent snuffed little candles.
Maybe Mr Leake would slow down, balance his thinking, and while responding, respond proportionate to the harm, and focused carefully on the demons who caused it.
Mr Leake I believe is making an important point, we go binary on topics depending on the tribe we belong to. Human history as it works. Nuance be damned?
This is foolish.
Gaza an autonomous, self governed territory whose government, Hamas, used its armed regulars and citizenry to organize and perpetrate an act of war against Israel.
The response by Israel is against the government of Gaza, which IS Hamas.
The idea that Hamas is just a terrorist entity in Gaza is beyond naive - it is Islamic propaganda. Hamas is the accepted and supported (according to every poll of Gazans) government of the population.
Every honest observer of any war effort knows civilian deaths are unavoidable. But every sentient citizen knows Hamas lies, at all times, because it is the Muslim Brotherhood. Any "death toll" reported by Hamas is, of course, questionable.
The fact remains:
MURDERED = 1,500
VENGEANCE = +23,000
Nonsense.
An act of war with hundreds of Israelis kidnapped and murdered, many still held hostage.
Nobody believes Hamas' data, simply because we know they shot their own citizens who did not comply. Would you be happy if MORE Israelis were killed by Hamas' act of war? Would that make it "fair"? The numbers are not an issue, obviously. You are just buying propaganda from the Muslim Brotherhood. Pity.
Robert Jacobs your propaganda is sickening. With it you are complicit in the genocide.
The only genocide is committed by Hamas, which has, for decades, engaged their army and citizenry in an acts of war against Israel. Self defense against murderers, kidnappers and rapists is hardly genocide, but you clearly don't know the meaning of the term because you accept propaganda from the Muslim Brotherhood as fact.
No one is, as yet seeking to murder all Gazans, except maybe Hamas, so they can blame Israel. The IDF goes far out of its way to warn Gazan civilians away from areas they intend to hit: why do you suppose they're allegedly dying in such numbers???
Because Hamas is the source of all such data. Nothing the Muslim Brotherhood claims can be accepted as fact.
No they aren't; the IDF reports too... The reports seldom match up, of course, but you have 2 clearly different views of the situation. The truth is likely somewhere in between,where variance exists, but Gazan civilians have confirmed the IDF warnings,multiple times over the yrs, as well as Hamas' threats, and actual murders of those trying to leave a target area.
By your logic, that would mean that you are complicit in the microwaving of babies and all of the other barbaric actions that were committed that day. You support Hamas, Hamas committed atrocities, therefore you are complicit in their atrocities.
There were no babies microwaved that day. There weren't 40 beheaded babies, either. At to this day, the claim of rapes, cutting off of breasts, etc by Palestinians fighters, remains unproven to the point the Israeli police put out a call for people to come forward with evidence, because none of the lurid claims match up with any of the supposed victims. You are still pushing discredited Israeli hasbara narratives, all to try to cover for a very real genocide being committed by Israel, with full US backing.
I looked it up. It wasn’t a microwave, I apologize for the mistake.
BUT IT WAS AN OVEN. And babies and children WERE horribly murdered.
From NY Post
Nov1, 2023
Head of Israel’s EMS service describes horror of seeing babies slaughtered by Hamas
Excerpts from the article:
The head of Israel’s volunteer EMS squad described the unimaginable horrors he saw in the aftermath of Hamas’ vicious attack on Israel — including finding a baby in an oven — as the Israel Defense Forces ramped up its ground operations in Gaza.
The soldiers sliced open the stomach of a pregnant mother, “took out the baby, and stabbed the little tiny baby in front of her and then shot her in front of her family,” he said.
The militants then proceeded to kill the rest of the family living in the small kibbutz.
In a barbaric scene, Beer said his organization had even witnessed babies that had been placed in ovens.
“We saw a little baby in an oven,” Beer said. “These bastards put these babies in an oven and put on the oven. We found the kid a few hours later.”
“These are not regular enemies, these are not regular situations,” Beer added. “I saw little kids who were beheaded. We didn’t know which head belonged to which kid.”
There is much, much more.
The Israeli government is selectively screening an invitation only (instead of general release, due to victims privacy concerns) compilation of the horrors and atrocities recorded by the perpetrators and their victims that day. All that have seen it come out visibly shaken, with many crying.
These are the Hamas monsters who you are making excuses for.
Sad and disgusting.....
False dichotomy and illogical. No.
Hey, just following the ‘logic’ that you used when you personally attacked Robert Jacobs for being “complicit in the genocide” (your words).
You seem to be ok with throwing around insults so I have a question for you.
Are you ok with Hamas microwaving babies and all of the other atrocities that Hamas committed that day?
Is it? Sounds to me like you have no problem with Hamas declaring war on Israel
Is this the Sesame Street version?
They are doing that in the US, too, so just what is your point in this context?
The numbers ARE a HUGE issue. THESE ARE DEAD PEOPLE.
This needs to stop with no more dumb excuses to kill people. My "hood" propaganda is from the human being group.
When an act of war is committed by one nation against another, there will be civilian deaths, without question.
However, you have only chosen to condemn the Gaza deaths (and assumed their accuracy), not the wholesale slaughter and kidnapping of Israeli citizens.
No sentient person trusts Hamas' numbers. Your "hood" is simply Islamist propaganda which excuses an act of war by identifying with terrorists and their supporters.
You don't know how many of the "dead" are Hamas regulars, armed Hamas supporters or "innocent" civilians. Nobody does. But everybody knows Israeli soldiers put themselves in harm's way to protect civilians, while Islamic terrorists actively target the innocent.
Hamas' numbers aren't real - get over it.
The numbers are not "Hamas numbers" you lying monster.
You call Rj a lying monster based on numbers from lying monsters.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAA
Hamas are lying monsters because, for decades, they have demonstrably lied to the world. The government of Gaza is Hamas. All news of the war is filtered through agents of these murdering, raping tyrants.
You are drinking Muslim Brotherhood Kool-aid, sir.
Sorry, but yes they are. Or some affiliate MB group.
I don't only condemn Gaza deaths, I also condemn Israel deaths. But now it's a case of the most powerful wiping out their enemy because they can. After all this time, human beings haven't been able to figure out how to fix things without acting like apes. If you had a 7 year old and an 8 year old and they fought with each other would you think it was okay for the older, bigger child to kill the other? Absolutely not. So why can't these "so called" leaders" do better than that?
Nations and peoples aren’t children but here’s the answer to your question:
Because the younger child continues to try and slit the older ones throat in the middle of the night.
And promises to keep doing it no matter what until the older one is dead.
The parents keep deluding themselves that the younger one doesn’t really mean it so they throw money and presents at him and ask him to be good and play nice, which he may do for a little while...... until everyone relaxes and tells themselves (and the older child) that the younger was just going through a bad stage..... at which point the younger kid waits until everyone is asleep and then he tries to slit the older one’s throat, ONCE AGAIN.
And yes, the older one occasionally beats the shit out of the younger one after the attempted throat cuttings.
It’s easy to understand why......
No one has ever been killed in the war on poverty.
Really? What makes you so sure of that? It's behind a lot of the urban violence that's been going on for the past 55 yrs or so...
Are you not aware that IDF WARNS Gaza civilians away from targeted areas, even to the point of personally telephoning them? Or that HAMAS SHOOTS any who try to flee such areas??? If not, perhaps you need better information about why those numbers are so high.
absolute bullshit
No, it's not. Ignorance and pointless hate, however, are.
Thank you for this well thought out and balanced approach to this topic. We are Christian supporters of Israel who have been there twice, the last time on October 7th. But, we also admit to being very disturbed by what is happening in Gaza as well as questioning the failure of the normally super effective Israeli intelligence and defence forces to prevent the attacks.
This conflict poses a dilemma that seems impossible to resolve fairly for either side. It is naive to expect the perpetrators of October 7 to step up to admit their guilt and take the consequences and thus be the only ones who will be held to account. But, however accurate the numbers of dead are, too many innocent people have died on both and are dying, including children. It’s a tragic situation which seems unresolvable.
There is no question that we do not know what is going on in Gaza. The U.N and international aid agencies cannot be trusted, not can we trust Hamas. That said, the pressure is on the Israelis to minimize casualties, and there is little doubt they are doing so.
As to the failure of Israeli intelligence, that clearly happened, just as it did in the Yom Kippur war. Failures should result in change, but that investigation is unlikely until Gaza is secured.
We do not know how many children or "innocent citizens" have died at the hands of the IDF - the agencies working with Hamas are proven to be corrupt and incapable and the Hamas propaganda is good enough to fool most people.
We can be as sure that non-combatants die in war as the belligerents - but that hardly ever kept any participants, throughout history, from avoiding conflict.
It is a tragic situation, brought upon Gaza by their Government, Hamas.
" the pressure is on the Israelis to minimize casualties, and there is little doubt they are doing so."
You are a ridiculous and disgusting person.
Do you believe 911 was a crime or a terrorist attack? Was the response logical? Did Sadam, Assad or anyone other than Saudis fly planes into the towers? Do you actually believe that planes fuel dropped these building into their own footprint? Do you believe in Unicorns? You are an apologist for Zionist terrorists.
9/11 was an "inside" job, and nanothermite dropped all the buildings. Jet fuel doesn't burn hot enough! Neither would a side impact drop them in their footprints, it should topple them over like felled trees. As for the Saudis and planes, where were the engines, wings and tail assemblies, all of which should've ripped off and fallen away? Where those planes and people all actually went, I don't know, but they didn't hit those buildings, or crash in that PA field either. People "saw" what they expected, and were told, to see, not what really was. Holograms perhaps.
BTW
I didn’t mean for my comment to be rude, I just can’t deal with any more conspiracy theories. Covid and the globalist/leftist agenda are enough to keep me occupied.
I can understand that. I grew up very aware of crash reports, because my Dad was an airline pilot, and got fascinated by how the investigators could uncover the cascade involved in crashes, so still watch and learn from them. I don't like lies being palmed off as "facts", and in recent decades more of those conspiracy " theories" have proven true, than not. The same kind of thing happened in MN with George Floyd and Derek Chauvin, where people "saw" what they were told to see, not what reality presented. Officer Chauvinism no more killed George Floyd than I did. The autopsy report showed a significant fentanyl overdose, and that there was NO injury oh to Floyd's neck, internally or externally, because Chauvinism knee was on his scapula,where bruising was found, but hate, fear, and lies ruined 4 cops' lives.
When planes impact buildings from a side, head on, the impact rips wings, engines, and the tail assembly off, and those fall away, essentially in tact. Those couldn't just vanish. Where did they go? Then there's the little fact that nothing hit building 7... yet it also collapsed into its footprint... And that other little fact that the débris was found to be heavily contaminated by nanothermite, 1 of the substances NO commercial aircraft has carried at least since the '50s, not even cargo flights. Where did that come from? Nanothermite is used in urban building demolition... Sometimes a conspiracy really IS a conspiracy. Our gov't has been pulling them a long time, actually. I've lived through too many to just chuck an idea as implausible anymore.
Holograms, really? Sorry, one conspiracy theory too far for me....
Here's a question for you: If the buildings weren't actually brought down by the planes, if they were brought down by planted explosives, they why did they fly the fucking planes into them?
Are you so sure they did? Where was the crash evidence if such? Other building impacts didn't swallow up the planes so entirely; I doubt those did either.
Are you fucking kidding me? "Where was the crash evidence?" Thousands of people witnessed it first hand and the whole world saw it on TV.
Here's another tough question for you: If those 2 planes didn't hit the towers, WTF happened to them and the hundreds of people on them?
What a silly question. They flew the planes into the buildings because the CIA paid them to do it....
/sarc.
Also, you do know that the US government and NASA faked the moon landings six times....
Just ask the Illuminati, after all, they own the whole world.
I’m told that since the government lied about Covid, now ALL of the conspiracy theories must be true.
moron
https://www.andywoodsministries.org/media/nvfs39g/ppov-284-war-in-israel-q-a-part-1
https://www.andywoodsministries.org/media/zzkp8ft/ppov-285-war-in-israel-q-a-part-2
In this one instance, maybe. Violent attacks from Gaza against Israel have been ongoing for decades and are only ramping up. If Hamas isn't defeated and utterly destroyed it will just keep happening.
Fighting for your right to peacefully exist against an active enemy which doesn't recognize that right is not meant to be an equitable endeavor. Sometimes 'them or us' is an inescapable reality. Sometimes 'tit for tat' just doesn't cut the mustard.
Here's a logical exercise for you. Suppose the US had responded to the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor by killing 2,403 Japanese and calling things even? Do you think we'd live in a better world, today, because of that?
The retaliation is much too much. This Japan example is parrelled to this current war. Thousands are killed and hundreds of thousands are killed in retaliation. The massive repercussion to Japan had lasting harms on following generations. This was overkill. I don't think a better world is when the powerful obliterate the weak and the physically "safe on the sidelines" people are living so far from the reality of atrocities they condone it. An eye for an eye and the whole world is blind.
Why are you thinking in terms of retaliation?
Gaza is an ongoing threat to the safety of Israel. They've stated that they intend to destroy Israel and kill as many Jews as they can and they are CURRENTLY ENGAGED IN DOING SO!
Israel is engaged in eliminating an existential threat to their very existence. What's so hard to understand about that?
Sure. Gaza says that. But everything you say about Gaza could be substituted with the word Israel. It's all the same. There is no "live and let live" on either side. Aren't people just people? Could you literally look in the face of a 5 year old and kill them. Do you believe in genocide? Where will this lead? Will nations look back and respect these people?
"There is no 'live and let live' on either side."
You literally know nothing at all about this, do you? Israel could have wiped the Palestinian people off the face of the Earth any time they wanted to and they haven't. The Palestinians would like nothing better than to kill every Jew on Earth, they just can't.
So?
Good response
There is evidence that the IDF was responsible for the murder of its own citizens. Then blamed Hamas.
Ludicrous
Proven. You don’t like the truth do you? Face it.
Show us the proof. Oh yeah, Hamas live streamed the atrocities with their pet Jihadi reporters. You have a tough job buddy.
Preposterous! Please cite your sources. Caroline Glick mentioned that she encountered this version of Holocaust denial immediately after her first comments on X.
policy
Try for more than 1 word once in a while.
What evidence? If you don’t/wont/can’t provide any credible sources then your assertion is pure BS.
I believe she's referring to collateral damage when the IDF mistakenly killed a few Israeli's during the battle. It's hardly evidence that they orchestrated the whole thing but it's all irrational people need to believe whatever nonsense they want to.
It does not matter how many died in "vengeance", though the number is unquestionably inaccurate; all those murdered in Israel were completely innocent. Those murdered by Israel were guilty. If Hamas would stop hiding behind children and women, if Hamas would stop hiding in hospitals, this would not occur.
That doesn't make sense. Children of any race/religion are not guilty.
What I am saying is that Hamas uses children as human shields. They teach their children at a young age that their duty is to strap on a bomb and kill Israelis. Maybe Israel is run by evil people. But when Hamas teaches their children nothing but evil and hatred, that's what they get. And when they hide behind children, why the fuck are people complaining about Israel. I'll tell you why. They are idiots who hate Israel. Kill Hamas and I'll listen to your criticism of Israel.
sicko
retard
The fear of vengeance (or more accurately retribution) is a good reason to avoid murdering people in the first place. And that wasn’t everyday, street crime type murder, it was a series of atrocities that were committed during a massacre.
I don’t think that microwaving a baby in front of its mother can be considered simple murder..... and that was only one example of the many atrocities that were committed that day.
I don’t know the source of your casualty figures (if from Hamas or other Palestinian sources, then they are questionable at best), but the Israelis have done what they can to prevent civilian deaths.
Avoiding civilian casualties is a hard thing to do when the guilty are using civilians and hostages as shields and hospitals as military bases.....
So?
No, Gaza was NOT "an autonomous, self-governed territory" before October 7th. It was a huge concentration camp, with all entry and exit of people and goods controlled by Israel. Israeli officials openly boasted of "putting the Palestinians on a diet" by restricting food supplies to barely above a starvation level. Periodically, Israel would "mow the lawn" (think about that sociopathic phrase for a minute) by bombing the densely populated area, killing hundreds of children, along with even more adults. Israel destroyed the airport. Israel shot up the boats of Gazan fishermen if they ventured more than a couple of kilometers off shore - which meant they were still in polluted waters, courtesty of Israel having destroyed the water and sewage treatment facilities. You'd be better off thinking of October 7th as a prison outbreak or a slave revolt, which tend to be violent. The Palestinian fighters attacked Israeli military facilities: those of the forces that enforced the imprisonment of Gaza. And they sought to take as many hostages as possible, to exchange for the many thousands of Palestinians Israel holds, often without charges or trial, including children. The Palestinians could very easily have adopted the language of the Israeli state, and said their actions on October 7th were "mowing the lawn" in Israel. You would be outraged by that, right? Well, I wish for you exactly what you with for the Palestinians. Do you see that as a blessing, or a curse? Look in the mirror. In the meantime, cut the crap by trying to diminish the death toll in Gaza from Israel's industrial-level slaughter. We can see it on our screens. UN and other agencies are reporting levels of death and destruction beyond anything they've experienced, anywhere in recent times. Better to look at the lies of the Israeli government, particularly regarding the Israeli military killing likely hundreds of Israelis on October 7th with Hellfire missiles from helicopters, and tank shells fired into houses at kibbutzim. It's in the Israeli new media, but the US press barely touches the story.
total lie. hundred of thousands of Gazans regularly commuted into Israel daily to work. Hamas is a terror organization and Gaza as a people united behind them to seek the elimination of Israel. Now the tables are turned.
No, there were, according to Reuters, 18,000 Palestinians in Gaza who had permits to work in Israel, not "hundreds of thousands." And those 18,000 had to awaken in the middle of the night to begin their hours-long "commute," which included passing through the fences, gates, surveillance cameras, and whims of the armed Israeli guards. The nicest gloss you could put on this is that it resembled the treatment of Blacks in apartheid South Africa; otherwise, at best, it was work-permit furlough from the Gaza prison. You have a completely upside down vision of reality.
I stand corrected on the number. Thnk you Jim.
bullshit
You FUCKING SHIT LIAR!!!!! Gaza borders Egypt. Did Egypt cut off the food?????? YOU FUCKING SHIT LIAR!!!!!
Prior to the US proxy war in Ukraine, Israel was the number 1 recipient of US "foreign aid." Egypt was #2, payoff to the Egyptian regime for signing a deal with Israel, and to ensure that Egypt followed Israel's orders ever since. The Rafah crossing is effectively controlled by Israel.
https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/israel-palestine-gaza-egypt-rafah-crossing-who-controls
Right now, Israel demands inspection of the measly trickle of humanitarian aid allowed in to Gaza - and removes all the anesthesia medicines. So doctors in Gaza are performing amputation, Caeserian sections, and more without anesthesia. This is the criminal state you support. The fact remains: Gaza is completely controlled by Israel. Remote-controlled machine guns in towers around the whole area. Fences and walls. Surveillance (and assassination) drones flying overhead. No access by air or sea. All land entrances and exits a gauntlet of gates, with guns pointed at the Palestinians. Chris Hedges, the great journalist who covered the wars in Central America, and the Balkans, was for a lengthy time the Middle East Bureau Chief for the NY Times. He reported, well over a decade ago, that Gaza was the only place he'd ever seen soldiers shoot children for sport. He damn well knows what Israel's control over Gaza really is, and he's not the least bit hesitant to say what's happening now is a genocide. Take your vulgar insults and shove them into your own chosen orifice.
You miss my point. Nobody, and I mean nobody, ever condemns Egypt. So therefore, I know you all just hate Israel and don't give a fuck about Gaza. As for the US, I want to stop giving away foreign aid, and to get out of other countries business. Again, you keep blaming Israel for the lack of humanitarian aid. YOU ARE A FAKE. If you loved Gaza, you would condemn Egypt. You don't. You literally don't give a fuck about Gaza. You just hate Israel.
Your point is misguided, as you are blinded by your desire to defend Israel while it perpetrates an industrial scale slaughter. Do you not understand that the Egyptian regime is a paid-off subcontractor of the Israeli siege on Gaza? If Egypt tried to open the Rafah gates to let in food, water, medical supplies, tents, clothing, etc, one or both of two things would happen in very short order: Israel would bomb the truck convoys and all the people involved in it; and the United States would cut off the funding of the Egyptian government. It isn't Egypt that is using US-supplied planes to drop US-supplied bombs on Gaza, it is Israel. That's the hard reality you need to face, Mike Wood. The entire world is watching this massacre. It's not some horror perpetrated far away, decades or centuries ago. It's happening right now, implemented by Israel with the complete support of the United States. It is the United States (not Egypt, FFS) that could end this in a minute. Earlier US administrations have given a sharp yank on the Israeli choke collar, and Israel came to heel immediately. Eisenhower did it during the Suez crises. Reagan phoned Begin, and within minutes Israel ceased its destruction of Beirut. Biden (or whoever is animating the doddering old man we think is Joe Biden) has the power to do the same, but chooses not to. Stop trying to pass off this US/Israeli genocide onto bit players like Egypt. Why do you think so many people around the world are expressing opposition to Israel right now? It's because Israel is doing hateful things, and those of us with a speck of humanity left want it to stop - especially when it's being aided and abetted by our own country, or in the name of our own religion.
I'm right on point. You are criticizing Israel without ANY condemnation of Egypt or the US. The US should get the fuck out of all wars. We don't have any right to stop Israel or to give it money. Israel has plenty of money. Egypt has plenty of money. Hamas has way too much money and I hope all the leaders get tortured to death. But you hate Israel. You don't give a fuck about Hamas. Get real. Every rational country hates Hamas whether it is Egypt, Jordon, or Syria. And the people running US are evil. And maybe the people running Israel are also evil. But you just irrationally hate Israel. Hamas deserves to be killed to the last single person. Then after Hamas is completely destroyed, we can talk about the evil Israel has done. So stop hiding your anti-Israel comments behind fake concern for the population. If you care about the population, Egypt is your best bet to criticize. Unlike Israel, Egypt has no excuse to not help Hamas. And yes, the US shouldn't give ANY money to Israel or Egypt but especially Iran who we literally gave the money to kill those in Israel. You show your true colors by not condemning Hamas. If what you say is true, that Egypt won't help Hamas because of money, the makes what Egypt does ten times worse than anything Israel has done. But you only condemn Israel, because you are anti-Israel. Condemn Hamas first, and maybe you'd have some credibility to me.
Fuck you, Mike Wood, you despicable lying gencocidal scumbag.
Genocidal is when you kill people just because you don't like them. Like say when Hamas kills innocent people, but especially Israelites, vowing to kill every single Jew in the region. Justice is when you kill the people who purposely murdered innocent people, especially children. Torturing Hamas is Justice. Do you think crossing a border into another country and slaughtering innocent people should not be a crime? What would you do if Hamas came to America, killed your child, and tortured your elderly mom? Is that acceptable? Should that be rewarded? Or should that be punished?
Actually, Egypt also blockades Gaza and even stricter than Israel does.
"The Arab Physicians Union officials submitted a request to Egyptian authorities on 3 June 2010 to send 400 tons of food, blankets, electric generators for hospitals and construction material from Egypt to Gaza, but the request was denied by Egyptian authorities without specific reason." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_imports
That's what I figured. But everyone I hear complaining about Israel is that Israel blockades Gaza and only allows what they want to go to Gaza. I knew that's a complete lie because Gaza borders Egypt. Thanks for the info!
Israel definitely blockades Gaza and restricts what goes in and out, but there are good reasons for it and the Arab world does the same.
"[A]ll entry and exit of people and goods controlled by Israel?" Really? Who's keeping them from crossing the Egyptian border? That would be Egypt. Who is restricting trade across the Egyptian border? That would be Egypt.
The Israelis would love it if the Gazans would go to Egypt. They've even suggested it.
"The Egyptian government has steadfastly opposed admitting Gaza residents into Egypt, including Israeli and other suggestions that Gaza residents could be temporarily housed in neighboring Sinai. Egyptian officials seek, at almost all costs, to avoid the refugee burden that such regional states as Jordan, Lebanon, Türkiye, and other states have borne in hosting large refugee populations from Iraq and Syria that fled wars there. Some Egyptian leaders suspect that Israel - in order to ensure that no threat re-emerges from Gaza - seeks to permanently displace Gaza’s civilian population in Egypt and other parts of the Arab world. From a security standpoint, Egyptian authorities also fear adding to the decade-long terrorism threat emanating from Islamic State affiliates and other Islamist factions operating in the Sinai Peninsula. Some Egyptian officials reportedly assess that Hamas or other Palestinian militants would operate in any refugee camps in the Sinai and potentially empower existing Sinai militant groups." https://thesoufancenter.org/intelbrief-2023-november-13/#:~:text=The%20Egyptian%20government%20has%20steadfastly,temporarily%20housed%20in%20neighboring%20Sinai.
Get the picture? Egypt doesn't want to deal with Gazan terrorists anymore than Israel or ANYONE ELSE in the Middle East.
70 percent of the residents of Gaza are refugees from Palestine, driven out by Zionists taking over their land, or their descendants. This includes those Israel packed onto trucks in Ashekelon in 1954, driven over the border into Gaza, and then dumped there. Israel is the occupying power in Gaza and the West Bank, subject to all international law. You want to push this responsibility off onto Egypt, or Jordan - and now you want to push 2.3 million residents of Gaza into Egypt, too. At least you're honest about it, as were the early Zionist leaders of Israel, and the current lunatics in Netanyahoo's cabinet. You've exposed yourself as war criminals. Wear it well. While you're at it, why don't you embrace your terrorism, as the founders of Israel did? Go full bore, be proud of it. Let the world see you as you are.
Hamas IS the Israel govenment according to Israel diplomat Avrham Primor: https://bitchute.com/video/3XKnSWnxhH6I
From now on I expect to see this acknowledgment in your comments Robert Jacobs.
You are full of crap, and you know it! Where do you get off talking about autonomy in an enslaved outdoor prison. Israel is a stolen land that had people on it before the Zionists stole it. Not a legitimate state, never was never will be. The entire story is a lie, and the history proves it.
This is a very sad rationalization for the killing of thousands of innocent women and children in Gaza, or what's left of Gaza.
The problem I have John is that I've seen no comprehensive description of what has been destroyed, both in terms of the percentage of Gaza leveled as well as the number of people killed (other than reports from known partisan sources). The images, like the one you presented here, are reminiscent of the images I saw early on in the Ukraine war. I believe we all want the truth, but we're constantly being bombarded with propaganda.
I also believe most Americans would want Israel to go to great lengths to avoid killing Gaza civilians, while not placing their own military in greater danger.
As far as the oddity of how Israel missed the invasion, sure, did seem odd. But, as anyone who's ever worked in the military or government knows, bureaucracy is almost never efficient, nor responsive. To think that their bureaucracy would be to any degree different is, in my opinion, placing too much credit with Israel.
Can you elucidate what you would have Israel do differently (i.e. more specifically how a "law enforcement" response would look like materially? This is the problem I have with Glen Greenwald. I have yet to hear what he would have Israel do differently.
Oh, stop. Just LOOK at the pictures coming out of Gaza for godsakes. Channel 4 out of the UK and Al Jazeera both do stellar jobs of reporting on the carnage. OUR U.S. media sure doesn’t!!!
Yes. Definitely. There are numerous pictures of destruction from Israel bombing of Gaza.
What we aren't getting is perspective in each of these cases.
Israel is saying that they are notifying each area before they bomb along with giving the civilians free passage out of the soon-to-be-bombed area. Of course, it appears that Hamas shoots at the people attempting to flee.
More importantly, we aren't getting an overall picture of percentages of Gaza that has been destroyed. At least I haven't seen it yet. I'd like to see details that both sides generally agree with.
I hate to say this but I kinda feel played a bit here. It's clear in the comments that we are proving John's point to some degree (i.e. you either see it from one side or the other.)
Here's the rub John...Saying two sides disagree and come with a predefined lens with which to see says nothing about what the truth actually is.
I'll choose to stick with the search for truth despite how I'm labeled in the process.
Look at aerial views. Anyone can do this. They’ve bombed northern Gaza into the Stone Age. Not only that, I highly disagree that the Israelis are “notifying each area before they bomb”- this is completely false. What they “say” they do and what they are doing, are two different things. Did you even watch the UN hearings on South Africa’s accusations of genocide? The pictures are there and the words used by Israel officials are there in black and white for anyone to see…. Netanyahu needs to GO. He’s a psychopath, as are some of his cohorts and he certainly isn’t helping Israel’s standing in the world. In fact, he’s utterly destroying it. That can’t be good for the Jewish people. Or Gazans. Nobody wins but the arms makers and the people who will profit from the acquisition of Gazan lands and off-shore areas where millions upon millions of dollars are waiting to be made in oil and gas. It’s a disgusting display of genocide and the Israeli government should be punished severely for it. “Never again” means never again- for anyone, not just the Jews. Kudos to all the Jewish people standing up against this mass murder of Palestinians!!
I understand what you are saying Mel. I just know that;
1. As I mentioned before, I don't know the context of those aerial photos (i.e. this photo was when this was bombed for such and such a reason and the civilians were or were not notified, etc.)
2. The UN has been anti-Israel for almost my entire lifetime, even siding with Arafat frequently.
3. I need to see trustworthy numbers of deaths in Gaza.
4. If Israel is trying to take over Gaza to profit from offshore oil plays, why didn't they do that before now? That argument sounds reminiscent of the only reason we went into Iraq was for the oil. Ridiculous. I disagreed with the Iraq invasion, but we didn't profit from the oil in Iraq.
5. Would you have said only the arms makers win during WWII?
This is not WW2… but it might lead to WW3 if the war mongering US government doesn’t get reigned in and soon, along with Israel. You should listen to Canadian journalist Trish Wood on her podcasts. She recently had on a Dr Khan, who is an ophthalmologist, who spent a few weeks operating on all the orbital globe injuries being inflicted on kids to adults from the relentless bombing. Listen and read from all sources. Trish Wood Is Critical podcast is one I wish everyone would listen to. She’s a top notch journo and has been for several decades. Cheers.
I never heard of Trish Wood. Just perused her substack and youtube. At one point she quotes someone saying at least 75% of the homes are destroyed. A video further along in her same article shows an emergency vehicle driving through a mostly undestroyed town.
What would you do if your neighbor was throwing yard darts into your yard where your children play...all the while yelling death to you and your family?
Remember, most of those civilians are human shields.
They could end all this now if they would surrender themselves to the IDF. The killing of civilians would end.
If the IDF pulled out, the killing of Jews would continue unabated.
Oh, wait! They should just negotiate with Hamas. Have you seen the wall between Gaza and Egypt?
Oh the irony of south africa accusing israel of genocide. A racist failed state, killing white farmers for a land grab. Hardly the bastion of human rights.
South African government has rectified their many wrongs over the decades of abuse of the people who lived there long before the Europeans came…. So… there. They are the PERFECT state to bring up the genocide the Israelis are perpetrating upon the Pals. Good for South Africa!!!
Mel, are you a marxist? Because if you support South Africa under its regime, you are supporting totalitarianism of the worst kind.
I surmise from your comment that you trust the message (ok to kill Dutch colonial farm owners to seize land) because you find moral superiority in the messenger (who have "rectified" the government).
Author's point illustrated.
I’ll bet that ch 4 in the UK and Al Jazeera didn’t show the videos that the terrorists themselves posted on the internet, bragging about the murders, rapes, and all of the other barbarous crimes that they committed .....things so awful that they almost make the Nazis look humane by comparison.
If they don’t show those videos to provide context, then they are just a propaganda tool for Hamas....
Yes the IDF has bragged about all of this. They incriminated themselves. Disgusting.
Channel 4 certainly did because I’ve seen them.
The mainstream media can not be trusted! It was only a few weeks ago the New York Times and numerous other outlets hysterically accused IDF of destroying a hospital, only it wasn't true. The photo they published was not of a hospital at all and the number of reported dead was a complete fabrication. They lie all the time.
I don't say any of this in justification of Israel or Hamas. I am only pointing out EVERYTHING any legacy media outlet reports should be greeted with skepticism.
You wrote: "I also believe most Americans would want Israel to go to great lengths to avoid killing Gaza civilians, while not placing their own military in greater danger."
This is exactly why modern armies with advanced technologies Don't use infantry assault against dense, urban, strong hold held by fanatical soldiers, willing to die in suicide at tacks. Less soldier die that way - military prefer bombs from a distance.
We did not choose to avoid civilian casualties in Mosul, we flattened much of it.
Sure, but I've seen numerous videos of IDF doing just that...going from building to building and calling in air support as needed. Probably similar to Mosul, right?
Yes, very similar. Israeli infantry casualties very low as a result so far. Why be ambushed?
They are not punishing Gaza people, they are trying to find the terrorists and their hostages, unfortunately terrorists are so embedded into civilian population. As you are an intellectual, I find it strange that you discard/not informed enough about urban warfare?
The IDF has destroyed most of the homes and infrastructure of Gaza. This is genocide. And national suicide. What is to stop the Moslem peoples of the world from coming down on Israel as Israel has done with Gaza?
I guess the Israelis could have issued summons to court to the perpetrators, you know, like the ones being given to illegals breaking into our country. The rate of compliance with them is less than 5%. If you really want to see destruction on a massive scale, look at drone footage of what our Iraqi, Kurdish, and Christian allies did to Irbil, Haditha, and various other cities in Iraq and Syria, with much help from us, when destroying ISIS. Not even close. Hamas has broken 15 truces: the Israelis, none.
Lastly, if we do into an exchange with the Russians, remember we provoked that war after 30 years of warnings from three different Russian leaders not to bring Ukraine into NATO (the EU was fine by them). Again, no comparison
Danny Huckabee
There is a binary choice in the Israeli issue. Your either okay with evil and it’s stated desire and goal of killing all Jews and destroying the state of Israel or your on the side of Israel and humanity and peace. It’s that simple. Israel has to destroy the Evil which is Hamas if there is to be peace. Hamas can end this tomorrow and save thousands of lives. They have chosen to do otherwise. There is zero moral equivalence here. There is only one measure that matters. Israel wins and Hamas loses. Pick your side. There is no middle ground. War is hell but Hamas picked it. Israel will finish it. The most human thing Israel can do is to defeat them as quickly and completely as possible. All civilians deaths are on Hamas just as all civilian deaths in Japan and Germany during WWII were because of their leader’s.
Compare and contrast:
"Since 1966, thirteen Israelis have been awarded the Nobel Prize, the most honorable award in various fields including chemistry, economics, literature and peace. Israel has more Nobel Prizes per capita than the Germany, United States and France. It has more laureates, in real numbers, than India, China and Spain. Israel is 11th in Nobel prize per capita, just after the United Kingdom at 10th. If only scientific laureates are taken into account, Israel is 13th in Nobel prize per capita, just after Germany, 11th, and the United States, 12th."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Israeli_Nobel_laureates
Meanwhile...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Terrorist_attacks_attributed_to_Palestinian_militant_groups
Page after page after page of them, not just in the Middle East but throughout the rest of the World too, bombings, hijackings and atrocities from Japan to Argentina and everywhere in between, recently excelling themselves on 07/10 by burning babies alive in ovens, tying children together with wire, pouring petrol over them and setting them on fire, all the while filming themselves and finding it highly entertaining.
So while Israelis have been contributing disproportionately to the sum of human knowledge - the Intel processor was designed in Israel in 1972, for example
"Palestinians" have contributed only blood and death and terror, their most significant contribution being the child suicide bomber.
Which would YOU support, a nation that in has contributed massively to humanity over millennia or a gang of pre-Medieval savage filth that believe it is clever to burn babies alive in front of their mothers, tape over a pregnant woman’s mouth, cut her breasts off and play catch with them, cut out her baby and behead it in front of her while she was still alive, all the while laughing and joking and filming themselves to put it on the Internet?
I know which side I’m on - and it sure as Hell isn’t the “Palestinian” savages.
How many Israeli Nobel Prizes ? Where did they originated from? Right Nazi Germany Paperclip project....NASA, Silicon Valley, R&D biological warfare, psyops, torture, propaganda,......
More Jew-hating nonsense...
I can smell them from miles and miles…..fascist Jews
The only Fascist around here is you, sunshine.
And pig ignorant with it.
Well honey I live on a sunshine island, and I can see for miles and miles who got his true feelings hurt. There are many pigs here, not one is a fascist so you certainly must be y he only one
Foolish child.
Grow up.
Hilarious lack of self-awareness to repeat TDS media talking points all the while professing the dangers of doing so. TDS is like HIV. Most people who have it aren't even aware they do.
My wife suggested Sound of Freedom. I was moved to tears watching the movie. I googled it afterwards to learn how much was true. This was opening weekend. Google was littered with attacks on the movie. I was speechless. Someone in the office recommended it. A supervisor ended up sending out a blast email urging everyone to boycott. They work for a looney bin level left company. Amazing.
Sound of Freedom was a difficult topic handled extremely well. I followed Be Slavery Free (formerly Stop The Traffick) for years here in Australia and stopped when they made not one chirp about the movie that was literally all about their supposed interest. Leftism is poison.
Yes. And when the group Gene Ethics doesn't engage on the ethics of mandated genetic injections, I also am left wondering.
Are you aware that Google is now a poor excuse for a politically “fair & balanced” search engine? They show you what they want you to see, to skew public opinion in whatever direction they desire by front-loading your searches with mostly or only articles they want you to see. They almost always lean left, sometimes hard left, and would be proud to know your supervisor took the action they were promoting. Use DuckDuckGo from now on. And there are supposedly better search engines than that, especially when it comes to things political or controversial. For an eye-opener, see the documentary, “The Creepy Line.”
Understood. But Google is a barometer for what the normies are being fed. I don’t rely on it for serious matters.
I am horrified reading all these anti-Semitic comments. Scripture tells us anti-Semitism will increase in the end days, but it’s shocking to witness just how distorted the thinking is here. Hamas put babies in ovens and tied up their parents forcing them to listen to the screams of their infants slow, painful, torturous death. They burned people alive and forced their families to listen to their screams. They beheaded family members right in front of each other. They so brutally raped little children (boys and girls) to the point of breaking bones, tearing their insides apart and even rape until death...TO BABIES AND CHILDREN. It is literally in the Hamas charter (available online) to annihilate the entire country of Israel and all the Jewish people. (Christians also). To not see that Hamas cannot continue to be a threat to the nation of Israel is truly to be on the side of Satan. Hamas has committed to never wanting peace with Israel. They only want their death. They cannot coexist in one nation together. You either want annihilation of the Jews, or annihilation of Hamas. Many on here have made clear the side they are on.
Thank you. I read some of the articles about the atrocities committed by Hamas but I didn’t watch the videos. The descriptions of the horrors from survivors are sickening..... I never believed that human beings were capable of such...... I don’t have the words.....yes I do....
They are just FUCKING EVIL
That doesn’t cover it , but it will do for now.
I would be interested to see an example of an 'anti-Semitic comment' you say you're reading here, because I'm getting a bit tired of the broadly used slur/oppression.
So if you are not listening to the reporters that are from their i.e. Amir Tsfarti, a Major, reserve now, in the IDF your theory would be correct, we need not throw the baby out with the bathwater. What is the truth is that most Arabs living in GAZA are infiltrated into this area and have been for. years helping the Hesbollah to build tunnels and under and around hospitals and schools ...most of who you call the collateral damage, besides the hostages, were helping these demonic group and not just helping they are part of them. They dress as civilians and hide behind children ~~No Isreal needs to do what Isreal is doing and we all need to get out of the way lest WE incur the wrath of GOD
I meant Hamas. Sorry Hesbollah is the Northern boarders. Yikes
There is no Biblical mandate that puts carnal Jews above any other nation in God's sight. An Israelite is one who overcomes himself by clinging to God. In God's view, it has nothing to do with human bloodline, but rather spiritual bloodline.
Matthew 3:9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
John 1:47 Jesus saw Nathanael coming to him, and said of him, Behold an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile!
Romans 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Romans 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
Galatians 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Hagar. 25 For this Hagar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answers to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. 26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
Philippians 3:2 ...beware of the concision. 3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.
Galatians 3:29 And if you be Christ’s, then are you Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.
We only incur the wrath of God, by indulging in sin. If making an honest criticism of the actions of a nation that calls itself Israel, would incur the wrath of God, then Jesus should have incurred the wrath of God when He pointed out their sins.
I recommend joining Amir Tsfarti's Telegram channel to understand exactly what is happening in Gaza. If you wish to see how Israel is visiting destruction on the targets, tunnels etc, its shown daily, you will see it with plenty of videos. If you wish to understand the wider involvement in the Gazan people and the Islamic global agenda in seeking destruction of Israel and Jews and Christians you will see that as well.
The hostages were and are being held in ordinary Gazans homes- starved, assaulted and licked in rooms. Ordinary Gazans. Women , children and men came over the border, stole vehicles, shot the men , kidnapped the women and children. These people were not conservatives Hews but ones that thought they could live in peace with the Arabs. They would ferry sick Gazans to hospital, leave peace symbols on the fences and general try to be good neighbours. They no longer see the western mistaken differentiation between Hamas and good Gazans. This will be my last comment on your site. This is all very ignorant to not understand that the Arabs want what the Nazis wanted - complete extermination of the Jewish people . Then who will they come for? After Saturday comes Sunday. The west has facilitated the murder of the Jewish people with its vacuous support of Iran and Qatar.
Agreed Jillian. In fact truth be told many many of the Jews who were killed on Oct 7 were extremely supportive of Gaza and went out of their way to help them. They were murdered by animals.
Israel was the victim of something horrible and justice was forthcoming.
However, a horrible act of terrorism should not be a license to commit genocide and to carpet bomb an entire population. There is no justification for what is currently happening, the way it is happening. You can’t just claim there were military people in an area and destroy an entire city. At least you should not do it. That is a war crime.
In the US, the left got their war. Now the right has their war. The war mongering has got to stop. People are dying while others make massive profits and we just keep shoveling money to fund more wars. Is this leading to peace? No. Take the money out of the equation and see what happens. I would wager if we cut all funding to foreigners wars, there would be a lot less of them. Even if not, at least we wouldn’t be going further bankrupt by funding violence around the globe. Let other countries fight their own wars. We can focus on defending our people and fixing our troubles. We can not and should not fund the entire world’s endless wars! The Military Industrial Complex wants us to believe otherwise.
The Israelis settled on a strip of unimproved desert land and created what might be called a quasi garden in that desert - after it had been part of a vast desert for eons. Why does not one praise their constructive efforts? Why did not the indigenous peoples observe and learn from them? What am I missing here?
From what I've read the local Arabs worked contentedly in the Rothschild-funded land purchase farms, up until the time their state was handed over by "the winners'', or something like that.
I've seen videos promoting what you are describing. But there still is a lot of desert in Israel, and there are also gardens and cultivated areas in Syria and Lebanon. I don't think much of the same development can take place in Gaza (certainly not now), since they are not a free nation, but are restricted in many ways.
Genocide is genocide no matter who commits it. Call it what it is. Indiscriminate mass murder. It appears the Israelis learned nothing from the Holocaust. To wage war on the citizens of Palestine for the actions of 1 in 200,000 shows how patently false their reasoning is. There are many followers of Judaism who are as appalled as we are at the atrocities being. How are the murders of 20,000 innocent men, women and children in any way rational? You are entirely right. If we don't all come to our senses this type of behaviour could easily lead To nuclear war.
"Genocide is genocide no matter who commits it," in this case, is simply a tautology since only an idiot could believe that Israel is engaged in genocide.
Are you really that ignorant or are you simply that brainwashed? People like you are the very reason 50,000,000 people died in WW ll. Get your head out of your ass and take an honest look at the world as it now is.
Germany, Italy, and Japan were responsible for all of the deaths in WWII, shit for brains.
Hamas and the Palestinian people that support them are responsible for what's happening to Palestine now, as well as for all the Israelis they've killed, kidnapped, and tortured over the decsdes they've been doing it. You can argue all you want that there's a better way for Israel to achieve it's security, if you have one (which you don't, of course), but whatever the outcome of Palestine's continued aggression against Israel, the fault lies with them.
Those wo forget history are doomed to repeat it. It was the Versailles treaty imposed on Germany after WW L that was the direct cause of WW II . Israel was stolen from the Palestinians by way of the Balfour Act which guaranteed that there would never be peace in the Middle East. Great Britain and the U.S.A. in conjunction with Israel are the biggest purveyors of war and unrest in the entire world. I don't even know why I waste my time trying to enlighten willfully blind people who have swallowed the blue pills distributed by the Western propaganda machine.
You know there's a case running right now in The Hague against Israel for genocide? It's being brought by South Africa. They are asking for a stay in the violence.
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2024/01/your-man-in-the-hague-in-a-good-way/
Oh, well, if someone is being sued by someone, they must be guilty--right? This is your argument?
That case will drag on for years and, like everything else the UN is involved in, will be a circus. South Africa, itself, is in hot water for genocidal rhetoric and behavior against whites. Is it any wonder that it would ally itself with another genocidal entity?
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/whats-the-truth-about-south-africas-genocide-of-white-farmers/
If you are looking for more apt analogy, people whose country was claimed by imperialists and oppressed would probably sympathise with people whose country was claimed by imperialists and oppressed.
My post was to point out that Israeli genocide is under discussion in The Hague right now.
What's under discussion is whether there IS any Israeli genocide. Don't beg the question.
What was under discussion was your calling the population of South Africa "idiot"s.
re "only an idiot could believe that Israel is engaged in genocide"
John, I believe you are way off on the Palestinian situation. It did not start on October 7th. How about October 6th Zionist Crimes against Palestinians and back 100 years. Those Occupied like the Palestinians or the Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto in WWII have a Right, and arguably a Duty, to Resist the Occupation by most any means necessary. The Occupier has no rights. Because of the Illegal Occupation of Palestine the Palestinians have been Ethnically Cleansed, Genocided, Mass Child Sacrificed and Apartheid for for many decades. Terribly many Jewish Israel's were murdered too but at about a rate of 100 plus Palestinians to 1 Jewish Israeli.
The Palestinians have no Air Force, Navy, Standing Army, Artillery, Iron Dome to protect them and Zionists control their access to food, water, fuel, electric, gas, medicines etc. All Financed and Supported my most all Murderous US Governments for 76 years!
Many Zionist Leaders Openly Call for and Preach in the Media ETHNIC CLEANSING, GENOCIDE, MASS CHILD SACRIFICE AND APARTHEID!
THIS IS PSYCHOTC AND INSANE.
Please utilize your huge skills, energy and intelligence to investigate it deeper and 911
With all due respect, is there a way to receive email updates from only Dr. McCullough's posts? If Mexicans came across the southern border and raped, tortured, kidnapped, and/or killed over 1000 people - and this is crucial - with the consent, support, and protection of the government of Mexico - I don't think you would be advocating a "law enforcement response".
Using your analogy, I think Leake is actually suggesting that the '1000 Mexicans' came across the border with the permission of the US government. #Patterns
Why are you so sure about that? That Leake would dictate a response entirely out of emotion?
Lots and lots and lots of folk here suggesting its all fine. OK. If the numbers of dead Gazians and Gazian children are lies.... but if you ponder that they are likely true or fairly true, the response could fairly be described as wholely disproportionate. And anti God as well, thats a lot of innocent snuffed little candles.
Maybe Mr Leake would slow down, balance his thinking, and while responding, respond proportionate to the harm, and focused carefully on the demons who caused it.
Mr Leake I believe is making an important point, we go binary on topics depending on the tribe we belong to. Human history as it works. Nuance be damned?
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I was wondering the same!?